logs archiveIRC Archive / Oftc / #tor / 2015 / October / 9 / 1
irreverant
does tor leave a log or cache on the server?
srg
yeah, it logs.
/var/log/tor/tor.log most likely
or /var/log/tor/log
irreverant
does that include windows platform?
srg
Are you talking about TBB or the the tor daemon?
like a relay
irreverant
relay
srg
Pretty sure it logs by default on all platforms
torQUES
Log <notice|info|debug> file "...path..."/log in your torrc
cacahuatl
It logs to stdout by default, not to file.
torQUES
my stdout is a volatile cmd and I want to see later [WARN] lines
and I don't want a useless CMD tab on the Taskbar - the relay is running in background as a service (like daemon 1 in linux)
         

throwawayrelay
tried my best to explain to watchABC that I am not sending them anonymous traffic but instead they are blocking my IP for running a relay. This is their response "Thank you for your reply. Your location is being masked due to the fact you're using a TOR relay, which is the reason for the Out of Country error message. In a case such as this, we recommend disconnecting from your TOR clients to determine if you're able to
access content on the WATCH ABC website.
While you are not using the TOR relay to access WATCH ABC, TOR is running on your network. That is the reason you are receiving the out of country error message. ABC does not support any TOR relays or any form of VPN that masks location."
notice how they start off by telling me I am using Tor to mask my IP and then the next paragraph they tell me although I am not using Tor they are detecting it on my network...
torQUES
<throwawayrelay> report the website to the human rights watchdog and maybe you will find a sneaky lawyer who will squeeze the ABC owner financial accounts
cacahuatl
The issue is that they're under the impression that middle relays will exit traffic.
throwawayrelay
I explained to them that middle relays to do not exit traffic but instead relay it to an exit relay.
I sent them a link to EFF's explaination of the different kinds of relays and also linked torprojects own documentation.
sadly I am only emailing a support person who has no clue how any of this works. She tried to tell me that they block VPN's... when i know I can easily VPN to a US IP and watch their content.
cacahuatl
I expect they didn't read the links and you probably got a mostly boilerplate response. :/
throwawayrelay
I assume so too, just thought i'd at least present the information on the rare chance they took the time to learn.
cacahuatl
You probably need to fire back another mail and try and get it past them to the next level of the support structure.
throwawayrelay
Good idea, I will see if thats a possiblity
cacahuatl
Your 1st tier support's main job is to bounce as much sh*t back to people with boilerplate responses as possible :P if you get past them you might reach someone who has the time of day to actually consider your point
rampart
it's always interesting when someone decides to block middle nodes
torQUES
nothing to explain to a tor hater hillbilly - waste of time
rampart
there isn't an easily scrape-able list of ALL tor nodes nowadays is there?
torQUES
burn them in justice
throwawayrelay
I gave them a list of all the exit relays
so they could blacklist only those IP's instead of all Relays
once again I assume they didn't bother looking at what I sent.
cacahuatl
It's probably better to give them a link to dnsbl or bulkexit
rampart
if it's a for-pay service you can also make a complaint to the bbb
cacahuatl
A static list is going to be outdated swiftly :P
rampart
which may or may not matter to them depending on whether they're a member business or not
that's about the only way to break through the tech support blockade short of finding the C?Os' phone numbers and calling them directly
torQUES
<throwawayrelay> give me their link to see if I can log - I have a running relay too ;-0
throwawayrelay
yeah I'm going to see what I can do to escalate
http://abc.go.com/
Just try watching any of the shows
         

torQUES
You appear to be outside the United States or its territories. Due to international rights agreements, we only offer this video to viewers located within the United States and its territories.
this is paranoia ;-)
I am sure you can get their shows from torrents
but this is off topic
cacahuatl
Getting past blacklists is never the issue for technically capable people, however getting them to not use blacklists at all or at least use less harmful blacklists is better for everyone.
https://blog.torproject.org/blog/call-arms-helping-internet-services-accept-anonymous-users
torQUES
<throwawayrelay> there are always other ways to get what you want from internet
throwawayrelay
oh I already get the content :P I just wanted to help them out with some traffic
they've forced my hand at this point. Their loss.
tacky
i recently developed a system for covert exits
cacahuatl
Stop right there, "covert" exits are silly.
tacky
everyone has an opinion. six words and i'm silly. real smart.
cacahuatl
Does not work, probably harmful, and escalates armsrace rather than deescalates it.
tacky
mine works, but whatever. again, everyone has opinions. you are entitled to yours.
cacahuatl
It's not opinion, they are harmful.
torQUES
I lived in a communist dictatorship and sadly I recognize very well the signs of a dystopian society which is developing now in the western world - people must fight for freedom and progress - no freedom, no progress - I even understand why the smart guys from the Navy financed the tor developing to bypass the bureaucracy stupidity
tacky
^too funny
throwawayrelay
can you at least explain your reasoning rather than juust bashing
qwerty1
tacky: link?
tacky
what constitutes harm is inherently a matter of opinion. duh
cacahuatl
Okay, when you pick a circuit, you want to know where you exit so you don't exit and enter the network at the same point thus making it harder for an adversary to perform end-to-end correlation attacks.
"covert" exits make it impossible for a client to do this.
tacky
anyway. fu*k it. pearls before swine. rock on.
cacahuatl
You might exit and enter the network at the same point making it possible for an attacker of an ISP level to deanonymize users.
The exit operator will lose any of the protections provided by Exonerator, because if the exit is unknown/unlisted then you cannot prove that the traffic that you exited was Tor traffic.
If websites who really insistently want to block Tor traffic cannot recognise exits then they will start performing more and more restrictive blocking.
Shall I continue? Or can we agree that "covert" exits are harmful?
tacky
no. i can agree that your mind is pwned.
cacahuatl
Besides being *totally* infeasible because an adversary can trivially scan all exit nodes and collect the real exit locations.
qwerty1
covert exits only for nice ppl
cacahuatl
So yes, tacky. You're wrong :)
tacky
sure. fine. it goes without saying that i am stupid. duh
torQUES
tacky: the best anonymity tools are based on the Kerckhoffs's principle
tacky
non sequitur
torQUES: The fundamental problem of communication is that of reproducing at one point, either exactly or approximately, a message selected at another point.
torQUES
the best results with tor is using the end-to-end encryption and a reliable endpoint security
throwawayrelay
love you guys <3 privacy is awesome
tacky
torQUES: An information theory that leaves out the issue of noise turns out to have no content.
torQUES
so make some noise ;-)
tacky
that's all were doing. lol
throwawayrelay
so I've been wondering, is there downsides to using a bridge? it just seems like if anything it would provide more privacy since my ISP would no longer know I am using Tor. Currently I don't use one because I understand they are a limited resource and some people NEED them, but I'm curious
qwerty1
not really
bridges are terribly underused
cacahuatl
Your ISP wouldn't automagically know it was Tor from DPI
But anyone interested could probably infer that your Tor traffic stopped and suddenly there's this unclassified traffic to some unknown IP
throwawayrelay
yeah true
tacky
"Besides being *totally* infeasible because an adversary can trivially scan all exit nodes and collect the real exit locations" ... from the limited scope with which you envision the problem space, sure. lol
cacahuatl
plonk
qwerty1
non-included with tbb bridges that is
ones you can get from bridgedb
tacky
of course. the internet is the greatest tool the ossified mind has ever had. lol
rampart
deescalation of the arms race? yeah...won't happen
tacky
blah, blah, blah, i can't hear you. brilliant. astounding. lol
qwerty1
the default bridges and especially meek are very busy
rampart
better off adding fuel to the fire to cost the corporations money and eat into their bottom line, because that's the only real way to effect changes within corporations
qwerty1
so if you use bridges get fresh ones from bridgedb
tacky
better, run your own bridge. i do.
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