logs archiveIRC Archive / Oftc / #tor / 2010 / June / 1 / 1
nsa
or: atagar committed revision 22447 (/arm/trunk): Full rewrite of the header panel, providing:
or: - lightweight redrawing (smarter caching and moved updating into a daemon thread)
or: - more graceful handling of tiny displays
or: - configurable update rate
or: fix: revised sleep pattern used for threads, greatly reducing the time it takes to quit
m3ga
anyone know of any FOSS browser fingerprinting code? basically looking for something like eff's panopticlick
arma
is the eff's thing not open?
m3ga
can't find a download anywhere
dr|z3d
http://browserspy.dk m3ga
panopticlick is temporarily down for maintenance. according to the site.
m3ga
panopticlick has been down for about a week.
browserspy.dk is good, but does not offer it's oource code for downlaod
arma
wonder who sued them :)
tester-007
I wonder if anybody can advice me. It seems my connections prefer to choose a certain relay node as the entry node. The relay is located in the same city where I live. Is there such a technical preference? Thank you.
(I must leave for a while, thanks for any help in advance.)
arma
tester-007: ask the tor faq about entry guards.
geographic location is a coincidence
         

tester-007
Are there any possible factors, like ping time etc.?
Manny
i dont understand your q
tester-007
I'd like to know the main factors that are considered when an entry node is choosen. I beleive it is not random.
Manny
have you read about guard nodes??
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/TheOnionRouter/TorFAQ
What's this about entry guard (formerly known as "helper") nodes?
tester-007
Yes, I have. Still not clear how the Tor client picks up the next entry node. At my home, for instance, the same relay node is very often chosen as the guard. When in my office, this node rarely appears.
Manny
"each user selects a few relays at random to use as entry points, and uses only those relays for entry."
tester-007
I might be wrong but it seems to me this particular node in my city is favored as the guard node for some reason. Do you think it is possible?
arma
no.
it's a coincidence.
if you want to change it, you can edit your state file to remove that entry guard
but i'd say you should leave it
tester-007
I see. Just one last quesion. Is it also a coincidence I NEVER see this node as the middle node in the circuit?
arma
if it has the guard flag (meaning it's suitable for the first hop), depending on the ratio of available bandwidth in the network, tor clients will avoid using it for positions other than the first hop
you can read more in path-spec.txt
tester-007
Quite clear. Thank you very much arma and Manny.
arma
sure thing. sorry for the scary behavior. :)
tester-007
Scary?
arma
anonymity is hard. it's even harder when you're trying to get good performance too.
well, it scared you into wondering about conspiracy theories
tester-007
It indeed did, lol.
I suspected my client or connection was somehow manipulated to almost always choose this relay.
Meliboeus
tester-007: what do you mean by that?
tester-007: did your client always choose the same entry node?
Manny
"each user selects a few relays at random to use as entry points, and uses only those relays for entry."
tester-007
Meliboeus: most of the time I use Tor, about half of the connections use that relay as an entry node
nsa
or: [ernie/master] 2010-06-01 13:34:49 Karsten Loesing <karsten.loesing@gmx.net>: Add NSF disclaimer to index.html.
Meliboeus
tester-007: ah. that is fine! Its not a bug or something. It has to do with the notion of 'guards'
         

Manny
we've established that, thx
Meliboeus
Manny: sorry, did not see it in the backlog here.
nsa
or: [Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki] #1518 was updated: #1518: EntryStatistics config option breaks Tor - http://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/1518#comment:5
or: Changes (by karsten):
or: * status: new => assigned
or: * owner: => karsten
or: [...]
or: kloesing committed revision 22448 (/website/trunk/en): Update blurbs for GSoC students.
or: [tor/master] 2010-06-01 14:53:32 Nick Mathewson <nickm@torproject.org>: Clean up "Address" documentation even harder.
or: [tor/master] 2010-05-01 22:38:22 Sebastian Hahn <sebastian@torproject.org>: Clarify the implications of the "Address" option
or: [tor/master] 2010-04-27 17:01:08 Sebastian Hahn <sebastian@torproject.org>: check-speces is a typo.
or: [tor/master] 2010-06-01 14:36:50 Nick Mathewson <nickm@torproject.org>: Merge commit 'sebastian/bug1381'
or: [Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki] #1381 was updated: #1381: Address Directive not used for Binding - http://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/1381#comment:2
or: Changes (by nickm):
or: * status: new => closed
or: * resolution: => fixed
or: [...]
prett_
could anyone tell me why telnet 127.0.0.1 9050 and then signal newnym doesnt work?
what is tor
what is tor's control port?
swissknife
9051 if you set it in your torrc config-file.
prett_
514 Authentication required.
swissknife
prett_: read the tor control specs in the doc's documents. And there is a tor-ctrl.sh script you may look at.
prett_
swissknife, where are the doc's documents?
nsa
or: erinn committed revision 22449 (/torbrowser/trunk): rebuild against old glibc and bump tbb version for new release
swissknife
prett_: http://www.torproject.org/documentation and "Tor control protocol specification"
prett_
thanks
swissknife, do I really have to read that entire document
that's fu*kin huge
all i want to do is start a new circuit
swissknife
prett_: haha, never used the control stuff. If i want to change the exit node i do a simple "kill -hup pidoftor". But i don't know what a "newmyn " does.
prett_
what does the -hup flag do?
swissknife
it sends a message to the tor process to use a new path.
tor reads the hup signal and acts on it.
kill -term pidoftor terminates tor gracefully..
prett_
swissknife, sorry to hammer you with questions, but what does it mean to terminate gracefully?
tester-007
Greetings everyone. New to Tor, I'm studying the documents. I understand the packets are multiple times encrypted travelling toward the destination and each node peels off one layer. What's the encryption method for the packets coming from the destination? Thank you.
swissknife
prett_: kill -kill pidoftor kills the tor process without giving it a chance to close all open files and such stuff.
kill -term pidoftor signals the tor-process to do all things to do a controled terminate, as close files, term path ...
phobos
tester-007: there's a faq entry about what kind of encryption tor uses
i'd copy and paste, but it appears my cursor is frozen
tester-007
phobos: More precisely, I'm curious if the return packets are encrypted multiple times or only once with my Tor clients public key.
phobos
each layer is encrypted
the content a client tunnels through the layers is untouched
tester-007
Untouched? Not sure what you mean.
phobos
tor creates an encrypted tunnel
if the user sends http through the tunnel, it is encrypted as it travels the tor network, and then sent on to the destination site untouched as http
and reverse
tor doesn't magically encrypt the internet
i think that's what you are asking
tester-007
Let me put it this way: my destination sends back a file. When this file finally leaves the entry node, is it decrypted? It would not make sense.
phobos
the file is untouched
if it wasn't encrypted to start with, it's not encrypted as it travels the tor network
Sebastian_
I think you're misunderstanding each other here.
phobos
probably
Sebastian_
When making a circuit, Tor creates symmetric keys for each of the hops
when making the request, it encapsulates the request in layers of encryption, the innermost layer for the exit node, next layer for the middle node, and outermost layer for the entry.
the entry then peels off that layer, and sends the data on.
etc
at the exit node, the last layer of encryption is taken off.
tester-007
What happens with the packets of the answering destination server?
Sebastian_
Now any data the exit node receives is once again encrypted with the key the exit node established with the client
then the data is forwarded to the middle node, and that one encrypts the data again
and the entry node does the same
now the Tor client peels off all the layers, and has the response.
tester-007
I see now ... so the Tor client peels off 3 layers.
Sebastian_
I think that was the question, right?
tester-007
Exactly, Sebastian. Thank you.
swissknife
peels off 3 layers ? only the last one from the exit-node ?!
tester-007
By Sebastian's description, it should be 3 layers.
Sebastian_
swissknife: hm?
swissknife
on the wy back every node peels off one encryption, so the last encryption layer goes encrypted to the client...
-way-
Sebastian_
no
on the way back, every node *adds* a layer of encryption
tester-007
swissknife: it does not make sense that way
destination -> exit-node +1 -> middle-node +1 -> exit-node +1 -> ... -> client -3
ah
destination -> exit-node +1 -> middle-node +1 -> entry-node +1 -> ... -> client -3
swissknife
hmm, a middle-node needs to know the path back to the entry-node, it gets this path by decrypting one layer.
Sebastian_
erm
no
tester-007
swissknife: by your concept, the middle layer should peel off one layer to know about the exit node...
instead, it adds one
Sebastian_
the middle node knows where to send the data because it knows which circuit it arrived on
swissknife
hmm, you gave me something to "think about", baa, have to read/learn a bit more maybe... :)
Sebastian_
swissknife: it's really easy to see why your design doesn't make any sense
where should those three layers come from
swissknife
but the principle of an "Onion" is to peel away layers of entryption on the fly..
Sebastian_
you're only thinking about the way to the destination
the way back needs to be reversed
if the destination or the exit node knew your entire path, where would the anonymity be?
Also, if the entry node got to see your traffic in clear, where would the anonymity be?
swissknife
aha, thats the point: backwards... !
the client encrypts the whole onion. the entry node decrypts the first layer to get the information where to send the packet.
and so on..
Sebastian_
no
swissknife
"jesus" help me :9
Sebastian_
you haven't understood the concept of circuits at all yet
swissknife
ok, i will read a bit more with brain on..
Sebastian_
first (before _any_ data is sent) the circuit gets established
this is where asymmetric crypto is used to generate symmetric keys for each hop
and only when the circuit is established you send your data
Manny
i believe current is 0.2.1.26
Sebastian_
It hasn't been announced
swissknife
Sebastian_: ah so we have to steps: circuit establishment and after that the info exchange. That looks diffrent what i though.t
-two-
tester-007
Thank you everyone for the help. Good bye.
nsa
or: erinn committed revision 22450 (/website/trunk): fix tbb linux links to accommodate new filenames, bump tbb version. phobos, please push the website.
helix
(Action) wonders if that nick hilighted
phobos
nope
helix
damn
I was going to be efficient
alas, never again
nsa
or: [Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki] #1519 filed by Randy19: #1519: Tor gives me a Socks error when i try to access a hidden service - http://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/1519
or: Hello.
or: Everytime i try to reach a hidden service of the Tor Network i get the
or: following error:
or: 504 Connect to qxedx3pyxwdxljd7.onion:80 failed: SOCKS error: host[...]
phobos
helix: pushed
helix
thank you
ropi
hi, i cant set a tor server. i get an error: Vidalia was unable to apply your Server settings to Tor. unacceptable option value: Servers must be able to freely connect to the rest of the Internet, so they must not set Reachable*Addresses or FascistFirewall.
hi, i cant set a tor server. i get an error: Vidalia was unable to apply your Server settings to Tor. unacceptable option value: Servers must be able to freely connect to the rest of the Internet, so they must not set Reachable*Addresses or FascistFirewall. windows xp. with router (port is open).
arma
ropi: in your vidalia settings network window, you have "i can only reach certain ports" checked. you have to uncheck it.
ropi
ahh thanks!
what is better for the network. realy traffic fot the tor network OR help censored users reach the tor network
arma
how much bandwidth can you provide?
https://www.torproject.org/faq#RelayOrBridge
nsa
or: [Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki] #1519 was updated: #1519: Tor gives me a Socks error when i try to access a hidden service - http://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/1519#comment:1
or: Changes (by phobos):
or: * version: Polipo: 1.0 => Tor: unspecified
or: * component: Polipo-Backend / Core => Tor-Tor client
or: * milestone: Polipo: 1.0 => Tor: unspecified[...]
or: [Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki] #1519 was updated: #1519: Tor gives me a Socks error when i try to access a hidden service - http://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/1519#comment:2
or: Changes (by phobos):
or: * status: new => closed
or: * resolution: => invalid
or: [...]
ropi
about 3mbits download and 0.3mbits upload
arma
300kbits is 37KB/s?
you may be happier as a bridge
ropi
i hate my isp i want it to suffer
nsa
or: [Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki] #1510 was updated: #1510: Tor Browser - No Route to Host? - http://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/1510#comment:1
or: Changes (by phobos):
or: * owner: => phobos
or: * status: new => accepted
or: [...]
or: [Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki] #1510 was updated: #1510: Tor Browser - No Route to Host? - http://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/1510#comment:2
or: Changes (by phobos):
or: * priority: major => normal
or: [Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki] #1507 was updated: #1507: Country Of Origin Malfunction - http://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/1507#comment:4
or: Changes (by phobos):
or: * status: accepted => closed
or: * resolution: => fixed
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