logs archiveIRC Archive / Oftc / #tor / 2010 / March / 9 / 1
toruser
when will the debian/ubuntu tor repo be updated to 0.2.1.24/ ?
phobos
it probably won't since the only change is for OSX users
toruser
"This release fixes a huge client-side performance bug, makes Tor work again on the latest Mac OS X, and updates the location of a directory authority"
This release fixes a huge client-side performance bug **for OSX**?
phobos
that's 0.2.1.23
0.2.1.24 is just for osx and its broken openssl
see the changelog at
http://gitweb.torproject.org//tor.git?a=blob;f=ChangeLog;h=a0ad8e4b6bcb3ed6ea6efb53d0dff84e172e931e;hb=HEAD
toruser
oky thanks
any idea what causes instability of a hidden service?
phobos
where were we unclear between 0.2.1.23 and 0.2.1.24?
i can try to fix it
just about everything related to hidden services can be the cause
toruser
phobos, no where in the changelog -- i read the one sentience changelog from packetstorm
phobos
ah, ok
and gone
oh well
nsa
or: phobos committed revision 21877 (/projects/misc-sysadmin): update the server inventory.
or: kloesing committed revision 21878 (/projects/archives/trunk/exonerator): Fix exonerator.py on Windows.
or: arma committed revision 21879 (/website/trunk): the publish script now needs you to trigger a sync to the other www
         

Piet
hi, i'd like to create some stickers with the tor onion (for personal use). but i'm both unsure where to get the image in a good resolution and whether licensing terms allow for it.
bja
Piet: If you do the svg file, i believe people will thank you and you will have your files. For legal reasons wait for someone with more knowledge
Sebastian_
wseltzer: ping ^^^
pipe
You mean there isn't an svg?
Doesn't look that difficult, someone" should do it :)
Piet
the best resolution i could come up with so far is http://blog.hep-cat.de/pics/tor-onion.png
anrxc
Piet: do you know free software sticker book ?
Piet: maybe it has some tor inside
Piet: btw last time I searched for tor artwork I found some quality links on the tor mailing lists
Ijan
Hi everybody, I dropped by some days ago and offered to correct some spelling and grammar mistakes in the german translation of the website
Sb directed me to the "translation portal" and I looked around a bit and proofread a few paragraphs.
I noticed that for a lot of webpages the german translations seem to have been not imported into Pootle at all while some are half there
Half there means there are lager translation-portions on the webserver than in Pootle
I decided not to touch either but today I saw commits via Pootle for such pages
Sebastian_
interesting. I don't know exactly what's going on there
Runa might know more
Ijan
This seems a bit confusing at best
Need an example?
Sebastian_
So afaik, some translations aren't imported to Pootle yet
they are supposed to be, but some aren't
I don't know where the pootle commits for those website come from, or how they can exist, though.
Ijan
Yep but half imported seems to bear a high risk of sb doing double work
arma
ijan: if less than 80% of the pootle file is translated, then it won't make a wml file out of it
but some files are only wml, and have not been turned into po files yet.
Ijan
and making your already inconsistent translations even more inconsistend
arma
yes, there sure is a risk of wasted work. the original plan was to convert the existing wml files into po,
Ijan
Maybe it's my fault or a browser bug
arma
but then at the last minute that plan didn't work, and nobody has come up with a plan since. :(
Ijan
Today somebody named TorMensch did a bit of double work already
Maybe
arma
right. probably.
Ijan
That's how it looks for me: https://www.torproject.org/finding-tor
Full page
arma
i assume you mean https://www.torproject.org/finding-tor.html.de
         

Ijan
https://translation.torproject.org/de/website/1-high.finding-tor.po?translate=1&editing=1&view=1
20% of the same page
arma
i believe that's because that wml file never got converted to a po file.
it sucks, i agree. we should have done something about it, but our volunteer didn't do that part. :(
pipe
Honestly, do people really want/need european translations?
Ijan
The link is from Google
Do you have a local search?
Haha
arma
pipe: surprisingly, there are people in the world who either don't read english, or understand things better in their own language
pipe
arma: in the world, yes
Ijan
Well your howtos and faqs are anyway only read by technical enthusiasts I guess
But a lot of your german self presentation gets copied by the german media and bloggers
and sorry: It sucks
Sebastian_
No doubt about the it sucks part.
Ijan
Didn't mean to be rude though
phobos
the translation or the original content?
Sebastian_
You cannot be rude stating facts ;)
Ijan
translation
pipe
I think that for the vast majority of europeans, a factually correct and updated english translation is the best option. The further you come from english, then of course, the more important it is to translate it.
ioerror_sfo
sid77_: what's your blackhat submission?
pipe
Just focusing on simple and easy to understand guides for most languages would probably be more than enough
(IMHO)
Ijan
Well would my going through some german stuff be of use then or maybe not at this point?
hm
again I didn't want to be rude a moment ago
Sebastian_
Ijan: I guess the best thing would be to try and hunt Runa down
Ijan: I don't think anyone's thinking you're rude
phobos
the ccc did a neat brochure about tor in german
Ijan
I remember talking to the guy who did a lot of the translation work in one big
uberhuman effort
Sebastian_
Unicorn?
Ijan
;)
maybe
he said he translated 40k plaintext in one go
Sebastian_
well
one go took a few weeks
but yes
Ijan
only seeing small portions
maybe you should review the process a little
making a small glossary and stuff
the text is already inconsistend
the TorMensch guy added another translation for mirror server yesterday
you have the different translations of hidden service
Sebastian_
It would be great if you wrote all your experiences up in an email and sent it to tor-translation@torproject.org
Ijan
and so on
Sebastian_
and yes
this happens with many editors
I always refused to translate the term hidden service
others wanted to translate it
phobos
maybe we pull a netbsd and drop all the translations ;)
only translate brochures into other languages
Ijan
choosing the worst would make it still better than having three
:)
Sebastian_
Ijan: that requires an editor to go through everything
if anything, this will become a lot worse with pootle
because now everyone can make the smallest change
Ijan
don't think so
Not from the tool itself
that's a point though
Unicorn
all those highlights
this is indeed a problem
i tried to be consistent over all files
but there will be problems
it's always a thin line you have to walk
the question is, what terms should be left in english and what should be translated
Ijan
Yep
Sebastian_
I guess one of the problems is that most Germans think a crappy translation is a very clear sign of utter incompetence. That's not the same for most other langauges
Ijan
you think so?
Unicorn
haven't heard of that either
Ijan
People read documentation to convince themselves and others they're competend
Unicorn
but of course, we could develope some more consistent rules to push the quality
Ijan
If you don't know what words to use that's a hard job
Unicorn
yes
such a glossary would be a nice thing
Ijan
people fight in web forums and go to your website for authority
;)
Unicorn
my first goal upon starting the translation was to translate all the missing pages to german
Ijan
I don't think you'll get too far without one and it should not be too much work anyway
Unicorn
there were quite big gaps in the translation
Ijan
I believe so
and you did a good job
especially given the circumstances
Unicorn
well, I put some effort in it, you may call it a starter. But I don't like the overall quality of the translation either
Ijan
Unicorn: Did you read what I wrote above?
You already have three translations of hidden services in German
Unicorn
yes
Ijan
Today sb introduced a total new translations for mirror server in a single line
this way your translation will get more and more inconsistend
Unicorn
yes
I'm totally with you there
therefore I would like to have or write a glossary for all the Tor terms
perhabs we could have it for every language
Ijan
Well I would offer help
Unicorn
your help is always welcome
Ijan
But I don't have a good overview jet
arma
ijan: feel free to ask me/us any questions you have about tor. that might help you clean up the english side of the website too. :)
Unicorn
arma: we just talked about it
we will try to build such a glossary
this will help every translator
to keep his translation consistent
arma
sounds neat.
Unicorn
another thing which increases the translation quality is a well rested translator
a goal I will now try to archieve
Ijan
arma: I like the english text.
Sounds...
involved, concerned whatever ;)
I talked with Unicorn about a Glossary
Sebastian_
Ijan: pretty much everyone working on Tor is convinced the website kind of sucks.
not content-wise necessarily, but presentation
Ijan
haha
It sounds direct
unpretentious
:D
Jep, the presentation could be better
I'm getting too tired to think an type
nsa
or: Roger Dingledine <arma@torproject.org>: 2010-03-09 01:40:21 [tor/master]: fix the tor-exit-notice.html file (bug 1295)
or: sebastian committed revision 21880 (/projects/todo): one more asciidoc-related branch. It's time for this madness to stop
or: Sebastian Hahn <sebastian@torproject.org>: 2010-03-08 20:01:52 [tor/master]: Don't require asciidoc when building Tor from a tarball
or: phobos committed revision 21881 (/website/trunk/include): most 0.2.2.10 packages available.
arma
that's my queue.
(Action) starts drafting the announce mail
phobos
gah, you updated publish
arma
i did. you told me you don't use it. :)
phobos
i have my own that i don't commit
because it only works with my config
arma
ah. so i forced a conflict. yay.
should we make a public publish script that is closer to what we both use?
phobos
the one that is there is fine
i would like to do start doing --delete-after with rsyncs
arma
so we don't accrue random crap on the website?
phobos
yes
arma
the question is: how much stuff is on the website right now that isn't in svn?
phobos
not much
according ot my build environment
arma
some symlinks
-rw-rw-r-- 1 arma torproject 1330 2010-03-08 23:52 Makefile.mine
-rw-rw-r-- 1 arma torproject 1313 2010-03-08 23:52 Makefile.r21567
-rw-rw-r-- 1 arma torproject 1389 2010-03-08 23:52 Makefile.r21749
random crap that shouldn't be there
phobos
yes
arma
nl2/OverviewPics.txt that somebody should translate for the overview images, but nobody ever did
similarly with no-extra/images.txt
phobos
i think all the extra crap isn't used anywhere
arma
with the possible exception of the symlinks, i suspect you're right.
we could replace the symlinks with some apache config redirect lines
speaking of which, it is currently undocumented what apache config you ought to use to offer the real website.
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