logs archiveIRC Archive / Oftc / #tor / 2010 / March / 26 / 1
shahn
ilter1: cbt = circuit build times. it means your client ignores the slowest x percent of circuits you build.
ilter1
shahn: Hello. Thank you for your reply. I couldn't understand what is relationship between cbt and Mike's load-balance algorithm?
karsten: Is there any explanation for these three graphs? Unfortunately i couldn't understand them.
shahn
afaiui, they #are pretty separate.
karsten
ilter1: which graphs? the urls i pasted here?
ilter1
shahn: Hmm .. I wonder how Mike's load-balance algorithm is going? Do you know anything about it?
karsten: Yes they are.
shahn
it seems to be implemented and making tor faster for alpha users right now
ilter1
shahn: How do you understand it?
shahn
hm?
karsten
ilter1: we have been downloading 50kb/1mb/5mb files a couple of times every hour over a few days. the graphs contain the time until these requests have completed.
x axis is when a request was started, y axis is the number of seconds that it took.
the lines are the general trend.
red is current master, blue is that older version.
ilter1: these are really quickly drawn graphs. not sure if they help much.
in particular, they lack surrounding text that would go into a blog post that is to be written sometime.
         

ilter1
karsten: How did you decide the general trend? Does the general trend mean that most intensive of reds or blues?
karsten
it's a smoother. that's what ggplot2 does when you say stat_smooth().
ilter1
karsten: Hmm.. Is the only difference the blue and red version Mike's load-balance improvements?
karsten
can't say.
you should find an arma or mikeperry and ask them.
pipe
blue or red pill
ilter1
karsten: Do you know what is the red and blue version? Maybe i can find the differences from changelog.
pipe: So which one are you choosing? :)
karsten
ilter1: that's part of the information i'm missing. i don't know which version arma used for the slow version, nor what options were in the torrc.
pipe
ilter1: I'm eating some Bassett's Wine Gums, so no pill.
ilter1
karsten: Ok thank you so much for your concern. I'll ask arma or mikeperry for more when they'll be here.
mikeperry
karsten: can we get some sort of variance or quartile plot of that data? that will probably tell us more than those average lines
ilter1: these graphs are only testing the circuit build times code, I believe
the load balancing is something that needs to be deployed in aggregate across the whole network. I will be able to measure the results once most of the clients upgrade to it
it is also written such that if we discover that its still not balanced, we can quickly tweak how the parameters are computed in the consensus, and all clients will change to the new weights immediately.
ilter1
mikeperry: Hello. Nice to see you.
karsten
mikeperry: not sure what you have in mind. the only things i could imagine are 2 boxplots of all values and daily quartiles as we have them in the regular torperf graphs on the website.
mikeperry: do you want to play with the data?
mikeperry
karsten: yeah, that's what I'm talking about, the quartiles on the main page. do we not have enough measurements for that?
ilter1
mikeperry: Hmm.. Thanks for explanation. Did you test new load-balance algorithm on any private tor network?
mikeperry
at a glance, it looks like there are a lot more slow outliers for the blue dots, which is what I expect. I'm just looking for some sort of statistical visual confirmation of this
karsten
mikeperry: only those few days. might look a bit funny to plot them like we plot the normal torperf data, but should be okay.
mikeperry
karsten: how is that average line computed? is there any notion of std deviation or varience that we could also plot? or is it some kind of kernel estimation thing that doesn't lend itself well to computing stddev or varience?
ilter1
Also how will you understand if it makes good load-balance on Tor network? Is there any graphs or etc. to understand it? I think downloading tests aren't good enough to understand it.
mikeperry
ilter1: no. I wasn't convinced that those sorts of tests would be terribly useful
ilter1: by examining the measured capacity of guards, exits, middle, and guard+exit nodes using torflow's statssplitter.py script (which uses the ratios computed by the bandwidth authorities)
karsten
mikeperry: can't say. there are multiple algorithms in ggplot2 for this smoother, depending on the number of available data points. i haven't looked into that yet.
wouldn't a histogram be more useful here to look at the distribution and outliers?
         

mikeperry
karsten: possibly. I'm just looking for some way to quantify and graph the overall distribution of times, to confirm that the cbt stuff is in fact eliminating the really painful slow points like it should be
histogram might be good for that
karsten
ok. i'll make a histogram and kernel density estimate graph.
BUT, mr. mike perry, you have a notification to respond to!
go to the gsoc website, log in, click through that, sell your soul to google, and click OK.
ilter1
mikeperry: Can we see the results of that script?
That seems you're busy mikeperry. Maybe we can go on later. Good night to everyone.
anvo
I do not understand what is going on: After failures to insall Tor and work with Privoxy and Torbutton, I installed FoxyProxy Standard and visiting torcheck.xenobite.eu tells me I'm using Tor for the web. Since I cannot connect directly to Freenode I know Tor is enabled for IRC, too!
But how do I stop or control Tor, after all?
Vidalia does not work for this!
dr|z3d
anvo: Vidalia works.
Well, it _should_ work, if you're doing it right.
anvo
Tor is stopped righth now, according to Vidalia!
bja
anvo: depends on the how you configured each individual program
anvo
What each individual programm?
You mean, Vidalia?
dr|z3d
You need to allow Vidalia to control Tor, and that really means allowing Vidalia to launch Tor.
anvo
I was trying to do so all day yesterday!
I failed!
dr|z3d
If Tor's running separately, with its own torrc, it won't have the control port open, so no dice with Vidalia.
So.
anvo
"own torrc"?
How do I cope with this...?
dr|z3d
First thing first.. kill any instance of Tor that's running there.
anvo
/etc/init.d/tor stop does not work!
dr|z3d
Just follow instructions and we'll cope just fine.
anvo
I tried little ago!
dr|z3d
ps -e |grep tor
then kill <pidoftor>
anvo
Just a sec
Many instances of "indicaTOR-XXXX"!
Is that safe or OK?
dr|z3d
I have no idea what indicaTor is.
Personally I'd nuke them all, and see what happens.
anvo
OK
All killed! Now what..?
Vidalia is running with Tor stopped
Torbutton is disabled
dr|z3d
Ok.. let's restart Vidalia.
So quit out and run anew.
anvo
OK
dr|z3d
Tor still not started?
anvo
Vidalia reopened and Tor is stopped.
I'll start Tor!
dr|z3d
Good.
No!
Wait.
anvo
Have a green onion!
dr|z3d
Please.
anvo
What?
dr|z3d
Well, that's good.
anvo
So! Do we proceed?
dr|z3d
I wanted you to check that Vidalia's correctly configured to run Tor,
anvo
I have Tor started!
dr|z3d
It seems like it is, but check your configs.
anvo
You mean the exit policy?
dr|z3d
Settings -> General..
Check that Vidalia is launching Tor...
anvo
/usr/bin/tor !
dr|z3d
Just so you know the mechanism.
Great.
anvo
Do I have to look if the file is in that path?
dr|z3d
And vidalia's torrc, also, right?
No, no..
it is, it's running!
anvo
In General, there is no torrc!
No field with that!
dr|z3d
We just want to familiarize you with the mechanism for running Tor properly :)
anvo
Thank you very much!
dr|z3d
Oh.. advanced for the torrc location.
anvo
Yes, it's there!
dr|z3d
And we haven't finished yet!
Ok, that's good.
Now, the other problem we need to address is Tor starting as a system service..
anvo
Do I REALLY need that?
dr|z3d
That's what's causing your Vidalia issues.
anvo
I dont have it run at startup!
I don't want to...!
pipe
that creates a lot of problems in linux distributions
dr|z3d
You need to turn it off, or you'll carry on having issues.
anvo
boy!
dr|z3d
So, we need to turn it OFF.
anvo
turn off, what?
dr|z3d
What distro are you using, anvo?
Ubuntu?
anvo
ubuntu
dr|z3d
Ok. cool.
anvo
you mean, turn off the run on startup?
dr|z3d
So, from a terminal.
anvo
OK go on!
dr|z3d
sudo aptitude install bum
anvo
I have bum already!
dr|z3d
and yes, disable the system service at stratup.
anvo
I do have it disabled!
dr|z3d
bum is your startup service manager..
Ok, great..
anvo
no
dr|z3d
So just turn off Tor.
anvo
wait
I dont have it!
dr|z3d
Erm.. check again.
Then install it!
pipe
anvo: You need to be less excited, too many exclamation marks :)
See, it's spreading
anvo
:-))
It's the way I type!
dr|z3d
pipe: It's a usual side effect when people encounter me for the first time.. no biggie.
anvo
Used to...
dr|z3d
(Action) winks.
anvo
bum installed
dr|z3d
Ok. Run it, disable Tor.
It'll be listed under system as bootup manager.
anvo
OK
dr|z3d
Then, to check it's all good, reboot!
anvo
OK
dr|z3d
We anticipate you back here in 3 minutes or less. :)
anvo
In Advanced Bum, no tor service in "Startup and shutdown scripts"!
pipe
!
ok, sleep for me ->
anvo
bye pipe
I have a dozen of things in Advanced tab of BUM, but nothing tor-like!
dr|z3d
Ignore the advanced tab.
It does nothing for you.
Stick to the main tab..
anvo
"under system as bootup manager"?
dr|z3d
You're running it.
So you obviously found it.
anvo
I have a "Privacy enhancing HTTP proxy"
dr|z3d
Nothing to see here, move along please!
That'll be polipo, if you care to look..
anvo
I don't have it
Let me browse the list of bum!
I don't know.... I can't see anything suspicious...
dr|z3d
Please do. You're still here? :P
You're not looking for suspcious. You're looking for Tor, and Tor alone.
anvo
Do you know the exact name of the service I'm looking for?
dr|z3d
Yeah, it's "Tor"
anvo
No tor in bum list!
No tor is running!
dr|z3d
Forget service status.
Remember, we killed the service.
So, just look for Tor.
anvo
I'm not so sure what I killed was tor!
dr|z3d
Ah, true.. ok..
anvo
torcheck.xenobite.eu still tells me I'm under Tor-exit!
dr|z3d
If you're totally convinced Tor's not there, then give the system a reboot and see what gives.
anvo
OK, don't leave the channel!
dr|z3d
Because if you don't, now, this issue will only come back and bite you in the ass.
anvo
plz1
plz!
dr|z3d
I'm here, worry not. As are a whole bunch of other informed bods!
bja
Nice cirilyc quit message
sid77: ping
dr|z3d
Just looks like foreign guffery in my inept client.
wb, anvo.
anvo
I rebooted, I checked torcheck.xenobite.eu
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