logs archiveIRC Archive / Oftc / #tor / 2010 / February / 23 / 1
ln5
are there any negative consequences of mentioning bridge nodes in MyFamily?
like giving the bridge away, or so
Sebastian
ln5: yes.
Please don't do that.
ln5
just did. i'll revoke that.
the documentation isn't very clear on that point, thinking of the config file and the wiki.
so, should the bridge mention my ordinary OR's?
Sebastian
no
that wouldn't help
ln5
wouldn't it help the OP to avoid including it in circuits?
Sebastian
xmux: parakeep is right. This is really a problem.
no, it would be really stupid of the client to trust that information. "I'm in a family with all those 500 nodes that I don't control, but I'm not in a family with those 10 nodes I set up and monitor"
ln5
ah
wseltzer
boo, craigslist blocks Tor from reading, it appears
or blocks some Tor exits
Sebastian
that sounds more likely
         

wseltzer
foiling my search for cross-country ski gear
ultramage
22:32 < xmux> When you free malloc memory that doesn't mean that the dirty memory is available for
*another process to use <- I didn't read the bug, but conceptually, if you allocate 1 gigs, and then deallocate, I'd be pretty surprised if the OS did not eventually let other processes use that memory
just my random 2 cents
Sebastian
ultramage: it does, and yes, we know
ultramage
okay :)
Sebastian
I was aware, I did, however, underestimate the seriousness of the issue.
ultramage
(Action) goes to take a peek at that bugreport
Is it serious? A malicious adversary's process might manipulate the tor process into exposing memory this way, although the whole thing seems kind of sketchy to me
oh, the thing is just a few bytes... I was thinking in the orders of megabytes of send/recv/queue/cache buffers
xmux
Operating systems zero pages before other processes use them
Otherwise there would be no security at all
ultramage
I"d wonder about that
Sebastian
erm. no.
ultramage
a nice hardened linux distro might ^^
Sebastian
true. But you cannot rely on such behaviour anywhere.
xmux
No this is just the way that virtual memory is implemented on every single operating system.
It couldn't work any other way or else you would leak sensitive data all over the place
arma
xmux: i know that debian has a habit of zero'ing the memory that malloc gives you, in glibc.
but where *does* the garbage memory come from when you malloc something and your glibc doesn't zero it? it comes from other stuff that that process freed earlier?
xmux
Yes, the *same* process
ultramage
it's true that zeroing is very very fast... question is whether noone would decide they want the best performance possible and skip that step
xmux
The heap memory is private to your process, malloc just reuses memory that you free without zeroing it out, but another process will *never* see that dirty memory
ultramage
also, memory swapped to page file... would the OS zero out the stuff stored in the page file after the process terminates? that would be quite a big performance hit
xmux
ultramage: No, that doesn't happen
The page/swap file is another story entirely
ultramage
I can try looking up if windows wipes memory before reusing it... kinda curious about that
I'd assume win95 wouldn't, since it doesn't do a lot of other things
hm, if I start a process, malloc() a gigabyte and dump to disk, then skim over the file and it's not 100% zeroes, that would let me know whether the system does so or not, right?
xmux
Yeah, before windows NT I think that proper virtual memory management didn't exist on windows
Do it, you'll find all zeros
If you find something else then you've discovered a huge security flaw in windows that nobody knows about
         

Sebastian
So why do all kinds of applications zero memory before releasing it?
ultramage
maybe unfounded paranoia =D
xmux
As a precaution to reduce the possibility that keys will end up in the swap file or get leaked if the process core dumps
ultramage
maybe they want to cover all possibilities
it's all zeroes :)
arma
sebastian: we did the zeroing memory thing because nobody at the time knew how effective or pervasive the cold boot attack might be
xmux
There is also Tribble and the Firewire technique for recovering memory from a running computer
http://www.forensicswiki.org/wiki/Tools:Memory_Imaging
ultramage
bah, wanted to run the test on my win98 VM but my vs2008 linker says it does not support w98 anymore xD
anyways, wiping the key buffer is not a bad idea in any case
xmux
Oh sh*t, I didn't know about Goldfish before
Sebastian
hm. No parakeep around. grmpf.
averagedave
hey, anyone able/willing to help me troubleshoot?
I always could connect to Tor, I've been using it for ever, and for some reason the past few days I cant connect
Sebastian
Have you been updating it?
averagedave
ya, that was the first thing I tried
i also tried messing with the options for only using certain ports
Sebastian
any log messages?
averagedave
Feb 22 15:01:15.674 [Warning] Problem bootstrapping. Stuck at 10%: Finishing handshake with directory server. (DONE; DONE; count 6; recommendation warn)
Sebastian
ah
so you're on OS X?
averagedave
ya
Sebastian
try using the 0.2.2.8-alpha bundle for now
averagedave
ill grab it now
Sebastian
that one should work. A new stable bundle with a fix will be available in the next few days.
averagedave
oh, it's not just me?
Sebastian
no
Apple changed something, and Tor needed to adapt
averagedave
oh
arma
and we didn't adapt very well :)
averagedave
I'm assuming in the next few years mac is gonna ditch osX entirely for some version of their iphone os
I'm gonna put a different os on my laptop i think
nsa
or: ioerror committed revision 21724 (/website/trunk/docs/en): Android page
averagedave
hmm
it's making it to 85% now
Feb 22 15:19:48.421 [Warning] Problem bootstrapping. Stuck at 85%: Finishing handshake with first hop. (DONE; DONE; count 67; recommendation warn)
Sebastian
averagedave: try looking at the advanced log?
averagedave
thats what it says in the advanced tab.
and Feb 22 15:22:26.578 [Warning] TLS error: unexpected close while renegotiating
hmm... it still says i am running0.2.1.23 though
Sebastian
ah
then you're not really updated.
averagedave
i ran the installer a couple times?
Sebastian
quite curious. Our OS X packaging is really stupid, I'm afraid
open a Terminal.app
then type "which tor"
arma
if you're running it while updating it, you can't overwrite the one that's running, maybe
Sebastian
what does it tell you?
averagedave
i have it closed
Sebastian
arma: I'm afraid he's got a single install mixed in. This has happened for another user too, somehow. I was almost sure the other guy did something strange, but maybe not.
averagedave
/usr/bin/tor
Sebastian
yeah, I was afraid so.
try "tor --version"
averagedave
Feb 22 15:26:01.000 [notice] Tor v0.2.2.8-alpha (git-ff88bc7db8edeb29). This is experimental software. Do not rely on it for strong anonymity. (Running on Darwin i386)
lol
Sebastian
Did you install the expert bundle, by any chance?
nsa
or: arma committed revision 21725 (/website/trunk/include): mandate UTF-8 on all wml pages
averagedave
oh. yeah
i thought that was just the regular alpha
Sebastian
No, it isn't. Sorry I wasn't more clear.
averagedave
ill get the other one... i see it now
Sebastian
We should make it more obvious on the website that the expert bundle is what you don't want, in 99.9% of the cases.
averagedave
hah. connected!
thanks
nsa
or: arma committed revision 21726 (/website/trunk/docs/en): ioerror isn't setting props right
Sebastian
great
sorry it's not as easy as we want it to be, yet.
averagedave
it wasn't really that hard, if I had downoaded the right file there wouldnt have been any issue
hey while I'm here though. Kind of a curiosity about Tor...
any of you have a really hard time getting onto undernet with it?
they seem to block all the tor IPs
arma
https://www.torproject.org/faq-abuse.html.en#IrcBans
Sebastian
Undernet appears to be one of the networks that ban Tor entirely
averagedave: we make it easy for web services to block Tor users, in the hope that they find a way to either specially mark them as Tor users or allow read-only access, etc in case they're targeted by abusers
averagedave
ah
ok, well thanks for the help
have a good night
nsa
or: ioerror committed revision 21727 (/website/trunk/img): Android screenshots for Orbot
nickm
If Parakeep comes back, I'd like to know which OS doesn't zero memory freed() by one process's heap before giving it to another.
nsa
or: Nick Mathewson <nickm@torproject.org>: 2010-02-23 01:52:19 [tor/master]: Mark 160 and 161 as Finished.
or: Roger Dingledine <arma@torproject.org>: 2010-02-23 02:23:06 [tor/master]: bump to 0.2.2.9-alpha-dev
jr__
nickm: I don't think that happens
nickm
jr__: Nor do I. At least, if it does, that's a huge bug.
nsa
or: sebastian committed revision 21728 (/projects/todo): only the polipo branch remains
or: sebastian committed revision 21729 (/projects/todo): race erinn to the commit, just because I can
helix
damnit
nsa
or: erinn committed revision 21730 (/projects/android/trunk/Orbot): Updated build instructions with new CPPFLAGS for privoxy
or: ioerror committed revision 21731 (/website/trunk/docs/en): Android website updated
or: ioerror committed revision 21732 (/website/trunk/docs/en): html update
or: ioerror committed revision 21733 (/website/trunk/docs/en): add android config section
abhi_nav
help register
I followed the instructions listed on http://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-doc-unix.html.en but still can tor check shows that tor is not in use. How to get tor to work???
bbeeeepp
how do you connect to this network through tor/
abhi_nav
tor is not working
bbeeeepp
someone boot the troll lol
abhi_nav, do you live in india?
abhi_nav
yes
does that matter?
bbeeeepp
yes
i am from india also
abhi_nav
Yes!! ?? !!
so tor doesnt work from India??
arma
abhi: OS? tor version? how did you install?
are you using privoxy or polipo? did you edit the config? did you restart it?
bbeeeepp
arma, I thought you were a bot
abhi_nav
I followed the instructions listed on http://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-doc-unix.html.en but still can tor check shows that tor is not in use. How to get tor to work???
arma
are you using torbutton?
abhi_nav
Ubuntu 9.04 and how to know tor version?I also installed polipo
arma
abhi_nav: quite likely you did not actually follow all of the instructions.
abhi_nav: did you install the tor deb from deb.torproject.org?
bbeeeepp
how do you connect to this network throught tor??????....?????.....????......???......??........?
abhi_nav
I edited polipo and replace with one provided on that above pave and restarted it
arma
ah. do you have privoxy too?
abhi_nav
yes I installed tro from deb.torproject.org
arma
i suspect that's it
apt-get remove privoxy and then restart polipo
abhi_nav
i added repository to software sources
NO i dont have privoxy
bbeeeepp
YES i need help
abhi_nav
ok
there was privoxy (though i dont know how it was in my pc) but now i removed it)
and now tor is working
thnx all of you
arma
yay
bbeeeepp
i tried connecting through 127.0.0.1:9050 but it says all nodes are banned
abhi_nav
thnxa a lot
bbeeeepp
where are all the cool people?
abhi_nav
i have my nick registred with freenode. should i again register it with oftc?? because when i try to identify with /msg nickserv identify password it says nick is already registered
arma
freenode and oftc are separate places
abhi_nav
then how to register with oftc? same as /msg nickserv register password email?
bbeeeepp
someone please help :(
arma
/msg nickserv help register
abhi_nav
ok
arma
bbeeeepp: please shut up. you are not being helpful to anyone.
bbeeeepp
arma no
u should be helping me
abhi_nav
thnksa arma i have successfully registered my nick
:)
bbeeeepp
phobos
lol
nsa
or: arma committed revision 21734 (/website/trunk/docs/en): start to address bug 1251
bbeeeepp
could anyone please help tell me how to get into here via tor
nsa
or: arma committed revision 21735 (/website/trunk/docs/en): apparently rpm people get screwed by having yum pull in privoxy
or: automatically too
abhi_nav
Now I have successfully installed tor. I Have check with tor checker that it is running. Thunderbird work with usewithtor but xchat and pidgin just dont connect. How to use xchat and pidgin with usewithtor?
!topic
Now I have successfully installed tor. I Have check with tor checker that it is running. Thunderbird work with usewithtor but xchat and pidgin just dont connect. How to use xchat and pidgin with usewithtor? I am using Ubuntu 9.04
hello
arma
hey. be careful using thunderbird with tor. nobody knows if it has application-level problems that give away your identity.
for example, maybe thunderbird puts your IP address in the mail headers.
what destination are you trying to connect to with xchat and pidgin?
abhi_nav
xchat for freenode and oftc and pidgin with gmail
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