logs archiveIRC Archive / Oftc / #tor / 2010 / January / 2 / 1
Sebastian
keb: heh, good idea.
keb: make a bug report so we don't forget?
I'll write a patch some day.
jr_
Is Ian Goldberg's students' DTLS work on track for integration or is it just a proof of concept?
Sebastian
jr_: I'm afraid we have nothing quite yet that is about ready to be integrated, but that proposal was one of the ones that are more likely to turn out useful later on
jr_
so is there an established path for fixing CC issues?
IOW, is there a "right way"? or is it still up in the air?
Sebastian
it's still up in the air, afaik.
jr_
ok
I'm interested in looking at it, but didn't want to waste my time if it is a "solved problem" that is just a SMOP
mib_r8c1xv
hi there! how long does it take until my tor-server is on the network-status-list? -> http://moria.seul.org:9032/tor/status/authority
Meliboeus
might take minutes to hours
mib_r8c1xv
because everything seems to work fine (-> Jan 02 00:23:15.965 [Notice] Self-testing indicates your ORPort is reachable from the outside. Excellent. Publishing server descriptor.), but I can't see my server
ok...
         

Sebastian
When was that?
Meliboeus
that should be fine
mib_r8c1xv
approx. one hour ago
Meliboeus
Sebastian: 00:23:15
Sebastian
Meliboeus: the timestamp doesn't tell you the timezone
Meliboeus
Sebastian: right
mib_r8c1xv
;-)
Sebastian
Meliboeus: also, if the answer had been "5 minutes ago", then clock issues would likely be to blame.
mib_r8c1xv
so you think that it works, but it's not on the list yet?
Meliboeus
hmm, good point. However, doesn't that show up in the log?
mib_r8c1xv: right, don't worry at all
Sebastian
Meliboeus: it might, or it might not. We have had quite a few bugs and unclear logging about that
mib_r8c1xv
okelydokely
I will check the list half a day later
Meliboeus
Sebastian: I see. that is interesting. Did not know about that.
Sebastian
mib_r8c1xv: hrm. It should be on there once a full hour is crossed
Meliboeus
mib_r8c1xv: did you check on torstat.xenobite.eu?
Sebastian
Meliboeus: checking there isn't a good plan
mib_r8c1xv
no, i'll just do it...
Sebastian
that lags behind even more
mib_r8c1xv: can you tell us your IP or nickname?
mib_r8c1xv: also, did you set up a bridge? If yes, then you won't show up there ever.
mib_r8c1xv
aha.... yes, I set up a bridge ;-)
Sebastian
ah. What made you think you would show up there? Maybe we can fix instructions somewhere :)
         

mib_r8c1xv
so I think I shouldn't tell you my IP, right? :-)
Sebastian
no, you should not.
mib_r8c1xv
oh, I think i should rtfm
arma
jr_: right. current plan is something about a user-space sctp stack on both sides.
mib_r8c1xv
a what?
sctp?
Meliboeus
?
mib_r8c1xv
oh, was not for me, sorry
jr_
arma: hrrrm, Michael Tuexen said that libsctp is semi-abandonware
arma: I passed that on to coderman a while back
but I'm not exactly in the TOR loop
arma
jr_: yeah. it's my understanding that all of these user-space network stacks are crappy and abandoned. or have bad licenses i guess. ;)
jr_
arma: and/or :D
Meliboeus
Sebastian: why not putting a hint in vidalia's network display saying that bridges don't show up?
Sebastian
mib_r8c1xv: well, there I was hoping that I could fix the manual ;)
Meliboeus
Sebastian: although, that might be confusing
Sebastian
Meliboeus: right, I think it would be.
jr_
arma: so am I correct that not much has changed since August?
Sebastian
Meliboeus: I think making it more explicit that you are a bridge is enough
jr_
(last time I poked my head up)
Sebastian
like "Help censored users reach the Tor network (THAT MEANS YOU ARE A BRIDGE NOT A RELAY)"
Meliboeus
Sebastian: good point
Sebastian
bridge has become a term many people are familiar with now :)
mib_r8c1xv
another question - what time (once running) has my server to be online to be a real benefit to the tor network?
Meliboeus
Sebastian: When using Vidalia, I was always confused about this "Help censored users..." thing
Sebastian
mib_r8c1xv: if you're a bridge, there's not really a minimum. The more the better.
murb
mib_r8c1xv: it seems to be something of a slow start especially for bdieges.
Sebastian
Meliboeus: please file a vidalia bug. We really do care about bug reports
Meliboeus
Sebastian: I had the feeling that I was doing something "illegal", clicking on that button
murb
mib_r8c1xv: i started off pushing about 120MiB a day it is now like 4 or 5 GiB / day
jr_
arma: who is looking at doing the work?
murb
but that presuably depends on how the bridge IPs are distributed.
Meliboeus
Sebastian: I would do that, but I am not sure how to improve the wording there.
Sebastian: maybe: "Help other users connecting to tor."
Sebastian: I don't like the "censored" part
mib_r8c1xv
but isn't the "censored" part the truth?
Sebastian
Meliboeus: hrm. I think for some people, censored is a good motivation. I think we should definitely get the words "relay" for the second option and "bridge" for the third option in there.
Meliboeus
Sebastian: no, as there might me other reasons using a bridge
mib_r8c1xv
ok?
Sebastian
Meliboeus: There are few other reasons, actually
Meliboeus
Sebastian: for example, when you do not want to tell the provider that you are anonymizing your traffic using tor
Sebastian
right, that's another reason. Are there more?
Meliboeus
Sebastian: hmm, I am not sure
Sebastian: I think that is a major reason
Sebastian
Meliboeus: I can think of one more, namely "let's test this bridge thing". Can't come up with more ;)
I still think helping censored people is a good choice of words, there.
Meliboeus
Sebastian: I just think it is too much focused on the censor part. here is a real world example:
Sebastian
Meliboeus: I'm sure there are other examples, but we should try to choose a short sentence that is easy to understand and recognize. Anyways, I'm afraid we're starting to paint the bikeshed. Adding "bridge" in there should make it a lot better. I don't really care whether it says censored or not. As I said, feel free to make a vidalia bugreport, even if you don't have a clear suggestion.
mib_r8c1xv
ok, thanks guys - I'll quit and read the doc more precisely
Meliboeus
Sebastian: If you are a secret agent in an "enemy" country, you don't want to tell anybody you have to anonymize your traffic
Sebastian
mib_r8c1xv: if you find problems with the documentation, don't hesitate to complain. We're happy to make it better.
hrmpf.
Meliboeus
Sebastian: agreed. "bridge" is fine
Sebastian: ok. let me file a bug there, if you like
Sebastian
http://trac.vidalia-project.org/
I think
https://trac.vidalia-project.net/ even
Meliboeus
Sebastian: done
Sebastian
yup
Meliboeus
Sebastian: thanks for the nice discussion
Sebastian
thanks for filing
don't tell anyone I'm a secret agent in an enemy country, though ;)
keb
whois the enemy
jr_
keb: the ones whom your government deems as such
as it has always been
murb
ok, is it possible with the accounting to limit bw to a certain amount in a month between 2 dates, but for instance only between the hours of 0800 and 2300 ?
(outside those hours the connection i'mconfiguring this relay on isn't metered)
keb
jr_ i believe the govt is the enemy or each person is their own enemy, but further discussion on #nottor if you like
jr_
lol
keb: I'm tempted to join #nottor and respond but I know this digression could go on for hours
keb
jr_ : years ;)
jr_
yes
keb
murb i dont think so, the AccountingStart is setup for using regular monthly or weekly accounting
murb
keb: yeah, that is what i read.
keb
i dont know if the directories will get messed up if you just use cron to start and stop tor
murb
keb: hmm i may see if i can vary RelayBandwidthRate via the management stuff.
does that sound plausable?
keb
or if you will get called a BadExit
ah true
murb
yeah, i don't want to start and stop tor.
keb
that would be fun, a cron to manipulate via control port
Sebastian
fund and totally not necessary
murb
keb: it should be trivial, based on the code the key posted the other day.
Sebastian
simply update the torrc and send a HUP signal.
murb
Sebastian: i think it is cleaner to haev a script that connects and updates it, if possible?
doesn't HUP have other side effects?
keb
SIGHUP The signal instructs Tor to reload its configuration (including closing and reopening logs), fetch a new directory, and kill and restart its helper processes if applicable.
murb
yes
keb: i have rtfMANPAGE :)
d
Sebastian: got so sleep!
Sebastian
murb: I'd rather have Tor reload than keep a cron job around that can authenticate to the control port... ymmv
murb
s/got/go/
Sebastian: oh it doesn't have to be a cronscript.
and it only needs to know the crenedital at start time.
Sebastian
murb: sure.
murb
and it is more fun to do it this way, as i actually get to learn something.
Sebastian
learning stuff is good
keb
heck you could even put the controller on a web cgi so it is easy to change from wherever
the only question is are you concerned about your Stable or Guard flags
Sebastian
keb: you won't lose them if you're not going down. But anyone using hibernation shouldn't want to have the stable flag too bady
badly*
keb
yeah i guess it is about optimising your donation of resources to the network
Sebastian
keb: see bug 1196
keb
thanks
onere_
hello everyone
Does anyone have any detailed instructions about how to launch tor at startup on macosx without the vidalia app opening?
Sebastian
onere_: install the expert package
onere_: https://www.torproject.org/download scroll down to the bottom
onere_
Sebastian: That's all I have to do?
Sebastian
yes
it installs Tor as a startup service by default
of course, you might want to configure i
t
onere_
Oh. Actually I was interested in maybe doing it manually, for one specific user.
Sebastian
oh, so you don't want tor to launch on startup, but rather to launch on login?
onere_
Yes
Sorry, should have clarified.
Sebastian
Ah, good luck.
onere_
haha
OK :-)
Sebastian
well, the basic idea is that you write a script
and add that script as a login item
but I'm totally too tired to sort that out now.
onere_
I've tried a few times myself to no avail
I guess a guide needs to be made and published
Sebastian
it shouldn't be too hard
but I don't really see a use case, th
tbh
onere_
Sebastian: OK I've got that expert package installed
And I just rebooted that machine
But it looks like the expert package doesn't install the proxy also?
Or it doesn't start at startup?
Sebastian
it doesn't
it just contains Tor
onere_
Sigh
:)
So how do I make polipo start @ startup too?
This is never TOO easy. :D
Sebastian
find a polipo binary, and install it as a system service... a bit of googling should find you both (sorry, that's how I would learn how to do it)
onere_
Why would anyone want to use tor without the proxy? Isn't that critical?
Sebastian
the expert package is mostly for people who want to use Tor as a relay
and they often don't like Vidalia, and the fact that they need to log in to start Tor
whereas most regular users don't mind Vidalia.
onere_
It didn't set me up as a relay by default did it?
Sebastian
no
onere_
So I have compiled a binary of Polipo from fink... it says "Established listening socket on port 8123.
However, Firefox + torplugin do not seem to be able to use it: "The proxy server is refusing connections"
Any idea?
Sebastian
you need the recommended config file
onere_
Do I have to get polipo and tor talking to each other somehow?
Sebastian
it is linked from https://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-doc-unix
once you've made sure polipo is using that config file, everything should work automagically.
onere_
Hey, it works
Now to figure out how to make it start at startup...
keb
Sebastian
keb: no, that's not it.
that makes it so the application will be launched at login, not system startup like Tor
keb
oic
Sebastian
well, on second thought maybe that is what onere_ wants.
onere_
No
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