logs archiveIRC Archive / Oftc / #tor / 2009 / December / 15 / 1
nsa
or: pootle committed revision 21205 (/translation/trunk/projects/torbutton/uk): ukrainian torbutton touchups
or: pootle committed revision 21206 (/translation/trunk/projects/torbutton/fi): a few more finnish torbutton strings, plus fixes
or: kaner committed revision 21207 (/projects/gettor/lib/gettor): Drop bounce mails
or: kaner committed revision 21208 (/projects/gettor): Only send out notifications if we got valid addresses
or: kaner committed revision 21209 (/projects/gettor): Don't send out notifications if either sender or receiver are empty
w__
Hi guys
misc
hi
w__
Can anyone help me? The Vidalia bundle, after copying into my Applications folder on my Mac, doesn't seem to work.
vidalia-bundle-0.2.1.20-0.2.6-i386.dmg (Mac OS X 10.4.11/Intel)
misc
ie, doesn't work ?
w__
It appears in the dock for half a second, then closes
misc
ouch
if you run it by hand, in a terminal, does it work ?
keb
what do you want it to do
w__
misc: How do I do that?
         

misc
w__: you are fluent in unix ?
w__
http://pastebin.com/m35b7f26d
Here's what's in the Vidalia error log?
misc: Not really, but I guess I can manage.
I've got a terminal open now
misc
ok, if vidalia show this error, no need to run it, i guss the bundle is wrong :/
w__
Really?
I have an intel mac though :-)
Is this because I'm running 10.4 and not 10.5 + ?
misc
i think it may be the problem
w__
So the actual requirements for the Tor bundle is an OS 10.5+ machine then
misc
bundle is compiled a newer osx ( i guess ) with some compatibility option, but I am not sure it was tested ( but maybe I am just wrong )
w__
Bummer :(
How can I get this fixed?
misc
w__: you should fill a bug report
w__
How do I do that?
And meanwhile, because I know that this worked before, is there an FTP site or something where I can find older versions of Tor?
misc
https://bugs.torproject.org/flyspray/index.php?tasks=all&project=4
for the bug report
w__
You know, this project is really awesome, but what is needed are some major overhauls in how the user interface, website, and even bug-tracking works.
Are you interested in suggestions and participation in those areas?
I think it could have much broader adoption if those things were addressed.
phobos
yes, bonus if it includes mockups or patches
misc
well, i guess every project is always interested in participation
w__
Well I'm not really much of a coder, although I can do some PHP... But mockups I can do. And I can probably make the website a lot easier to navigate as well.
Who would I need to talk to about that?
phobos
tor-assistants@torproject.org is fine
or us in here
w__
Cool
phobos
we're well aware we could use a better website
w__
Do you have any sense of how many people use Tor right now?
arma
latest estimates range from 150000 to 371000 to 500000
daily users
         

w__
Wow
How do you manage to gather that data?
arma
very carefully. :) see e.g. https://www.torproject.org/projects/metrics
w__
Rad
phobos
we know that tor has millions of downloads
w__
What prompted the switch to polipo btw?
arma
privoxy can't do http 1.1, keepalives, or pipelining
i think it may have solved one of the three, but the others remaining
phobos
polipo also streams data to the browser as soon as it gets it
which improves user experience
w__
UI stuff, guys... I mean, the fact that I have to register and put in some weird confirmation code just to report a Tor bug. That's going to hugely detract people from rocking out bug reports.
:-)
Just saying!
phobos: Well I only vaguely understand what that means, but cool. :)
phobos
it hasn't stopped many so far
and it cuts down on the 9000 spam bug reports
w__
phobos: Sure, but you can't know that it's NOT stopped a ton of people from filing.
phobos
it's a small bar to hurdle
w__
phobos: Any impediment to just doing it, in this 'busy world'... You know how it goes.
phobos: Yeah no offense but that's something a rational developer would say. :)
phobos
i also want someone who will stick with it
not just report it and say "you suck, fix it, fu*kers"
because we get those too
w__
phobos: I don't think you'd find that people would be that way if the environment did not feel... You know, highly technical and intimidating.
phobos
maybe when we switch to trac, it'll be better
w__
It's all aboutsetting the mood.
arma
maybe our new forums will solve everything ;)
w__
I don't think Trac is going to cut it. You need something else. Or at least there needs to be a layer of reporting in between "file a bug report in trac" and "tell us what your issue is".
phobos
this implies we offer support of some kind, for the latter reports
and yes, forums should solve some of it
w__
What you need to do is make a game out of support
phobos
some would say we do already
w__
So you can get the users to help each other
keb
irc is good at that
phobos
"find the contact info", "beat the email registration level boss"
w__
keb: IRC is obscure for most people.
keb: Not to mention that you're not even on a major known server as far as I can tell. :)
phobos: haha right
phobos
the intent with the forums is to promote people to moderator from the community
w__
Look to GetSatisfaction.
I think the tor issues should be moved there
phobos
no
they don't take anonymous posts
w__
Because honestly, there's already a standard of "be nice" in existence there
phobos
and they record everything you do
w__
It doesn't matter in this case.
phobos
not exactly tor friendly
w__
Ah I see
Well this is a bi**h isn't it :)
phobos
lots of things can be solved if we didn't care about users privacy
w__
I understand.
arma
phobos: speaking of which. when do we give the fora a go?
keb
didnt jonscream have some running once
phobos
when the guy in china figures out how to connect to torproject.org and finish the skinning
arma
phobos: ah, ok
keb: we've got official tor forums in the works
keb: and we will need you to help keep all the threads on track :)
phobos
w__: in general, we'd love help, but i'm not going to trade user privacy for functionality or "most popular site" to use
keb
(Action) genuflects
phobos
now now, no need for that
w__
phobos: Yeah I hear you. I hadn't considered that. But I think there's a healthy middle-ground to be found somewhere.
phobos: The IRC or bugtracker requirement is just way too technical for most users.
phobos
i agree
traditionally, tor attracts a very technically adept crowd
over the past year, that's less and less the case
w__
Well, I think this project is too important to leave to a technical crowd only
I want to be able to tell my mom to install it and use it
Without having to do it for her.
You know what I'm saying, all of you do. I'm sure :)
phobos
yes
we're aware that everyone and their mother will soon be concerned about online privacy
and need to adapt
w__
Yes.
Need to be ready.
misc
well, for this we need bug report of technical people who can manage to find where the problem is, and be able to directly discuss with less technical users
w__
Honestly it's exciting... I've been watching software "like this" since the early days of Freenet. This is the first project of its kind that really has a chance to be something, and really change the game in this world.
misc: I get it.
misc: I'm going to put some thought into that.
phobos
our model is generally to find excited people and let them do their thing
misc
because bug report from non technical people doesn't scale as much as having a 3 tiered system ( non technical user <-> technical users <-> dev )
w__
You know what would be interesting is if you could get amazon to donate mechanical turk hours or something
For that very purpose. :0
But I guess they could care less about online privacy
phobos
i've been surprised by who cares abou tit
we've just convinced some people to do videos of "how to install tor"
and how to use bridges and how to use the tor browser bundle
next up is hopefully how to setup a tor relay
and why tor?
and/or what is tor
w__
Awesome
On this relay tip
phobos
and then, i should put them on the webpages to it just plays
rather than link to some video site
w__
Yep
xxx:~ w$ sudo launchctl load -w /Library/LaunchDaemons/org.torproject.tor.plist ... I get: launchctl: opendir() failed to open the directory ; nothing found to load
^ I just installed tor from MacPorts
And that's what I get... Trying to set it to load at startup; any idea?
phobos
we don't maintain the macports
w__
Oiye.
phobos
i don't know who does
w__
So, can Tor do distributed content in the same way that Freenet does?
With local encrypted shares or whatever?
phobos
no one has written a filesytem for tor yet, that i know of
w__
But this is possible then?
phobos
think of tor like anonymous tcp
w__
What does it mean if I just get this for half an hour? Dec 14 19:48:10.994 [warn] TLS error: unexpected close while renegotiating
(after running 'tor' from the commandline)
phobos
it means you have a new openssl that we don't correctly handle yet, which is coming soon
w__
ugh :( how can I point it to the openssl that comes with my system instead of the macports one?
Or does that require a recompile?
phobos
hmm
does tor ever connect?
w__
No
phobos
hmm, i don't know off the top of my head
(Action) fires up the mac
w__
:)
Thanks
Who maintains Mac tor?
Or who builds it anyway
arma
w__: the tor 0.2.2.6-alpha dev release works with one of the ways that openssl broke itself
phobos
i build all the package except debian
arma
(openssl has changed its api out of under its applications in several different ways, in the past few weeks. bad news.)
w__
arma: Yes but unfortunately the Vidalia bundle crashes and burns on my machine, per the earlier chat we had.
phobos
do you know why it crashes?
are you on tiger?
w__
phobos: I pasted you that pastebin link
Yes I'm on Tiger
Hold on, I'll grab the absolute latest one..
keb
if they changed the api shouldnt they have renumbered it to 0.9.9 instead of incrementing the letter at the end
arma
#
Reason: Incompatible library version: Vidalia requires version 7.0.0 or later, but libiconv.2.dy
#
lib provides version 5.0.0
phobos
i suspect it's some weird iconv but
bug
yeah
arma
keb: good idea, eh?
phobos
ok, i have video instructions on the right pages
let me build the website and test it out
w__
What the hell is iconv anyway? :)
nsa
or: arma committed revision 21210 (/website/trunk/docs/en): make it explicit how to restart polipo, depending on your platform.
or: suggested by somebody on irc.
w__
Are you guys trying to lessen your dependency on system stuff to make this more portable?
(maybe that's a stupid question, I don't know how it works after all)
arma
we are exploring that direction in parallel to trying to make our installer packages flexible
keb
wasnt someone working on a java tor
arma
there are only so many of us though, and we have actual tor things to solve too
keb: yep, xmux is
keb
the spec is public, so anyone can implement it
arma
keb: i think the main focus there is to plan to have something for phones, though. not to replace the tor for osx.
w__
keb: That's kind of the opposite of portability in the sense that I mean :)
keb
android and iphone seem the be the best targets
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