logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #oracle / 2010 / June / 10 / 1
rzl
hello there
RJarett
hi
rzl
hello there
oh sorry alredy said :-P
i'm new to SQL, i'm gonna learn SQL and to administer a database system
and i was wondering whether Oracle could be a good choice to begin with
the alternative is PostgreSQL, now
RJarett
Because other databases have no concept of security, and break many rules of standards
Well, not many companies pay people to manage postgres
if you learn oracle, you know enough to run almost any other DB system since they are easy
rzl
mmmh
but i'm 18 now, i use a netbook most of the time, my home server is a 450Mhz-pentium3 and i can't afford a license of oracle nor guides...
how could i do ?
(yeah, i'm a desperate)
oh, of course, if i'll ever start learningn oracle... we'll probably become good friends :-P
RJarett
download oracle XE
and vmware player
oracle xe is free
rzl
better windows or linux version?
RJarett
vmware player is free
rzl
i currently run windows
         

RJarett
learn linux if you are young
do NOT use ubuntu
rzl
mmmh..
i used to run debian
RJarett
any dumbass can use windows
go on freecycle or craigslist free section and see if anyone has any servers they are giving away
rzl
but i'm currently running ubuntu, since the netbook comes with no cdr-drive and debian stable usb images was too obsolete...
RJarett
eh
itll run oracle xe
rzl
but i'll install debian or slackware when i get an ide-to-usb adapter
RJarett
but most enterprise companies dont use ubuntu
rzl
yeah i know
RJarett
just eventually switch to centos or another redhat clone
rzl
i alredy bought a usb-to-ide adapter, but it arrived alredy broken
RJarett
rzl: do you have a job?
rzl
i'm waiting for the next release of centos, the current one would be much too old
RJarett
no it wouldnt
major companeis dont upgrade to new things
rzl
RJarett: i'm currently looking for one
RJarett
find one
dont use crap gear
rzl
RJarett: i want to be a sysadmin *.*
RJarett: crap gear like netbook ?
RJarett
hell $800 can buy a great system to run vmware esxi on and 4-8 VMs
well a netbook is a workstation
if you want to be a sysadmin, build a lab
rzl
RJarett: netbook are little pcs, 10.2" inches-wide screen
RJarett: oh i alredy ahve
RJarett
use gns (dynamips)
rzl
RJarett: i alredy ahve!
         

RJarett
for learning cisco
rzl
porco dio!
RJarett: i alredy HAVE
RJarett
ok
rzl
lol :-P
RJarett
and why are you asking?
wheres you plan?
rzl
RJarett: i have a home server, a real domain
RJarett
so
rzl
RJarett: my aim is to get certificated so that i can easily find job
RJarett
what are you doing with it?
certs dont make for an easy job
what is your plan?
rzl
RJarett: what do you mean as "plan" ?
RJarett
Plan. Which cert first?
rzl
oh...
RJarett
What is your study plan?
What is your plan to build a full working lab which would show how things work
rzl
i'm not sure, probably SCJP (java) then Oracle and then something else
oh that
RJarett
sysadmins wouldnt need scjp
rzl
yeah, right
RJarett
sure get it or scja if you are a good coder
not like it would hurt
but have a plan
rzl
but programmers are more needed than sysadmins theese days... so if i can't get a job as sysadmin...
RJarett
build up a 3 or 4 tier setup in vmware
rzl
RJarett: you're right, i should have a plan
RJarett
make a webapp
setup the firewalls betwee each tier
the routing
run the database
and then destroy it to test your backup and recovery skills
you have way more chances to learn now vs when the rest of us did
avaia
test in prod, baby
rzl
RJarett: shall i get a new home server in your opinion ?
RJarett
see what you can find for free
rzl
my current server runs NetBSD 5.0.1
ok.. where can i find servers for free ?
RJarett
does the server its on support VT extensions to run vmware esxi?
craigslist or free cycle
something off of a lease or depreciated off a companies books
or like i said $800 is a quad core w/ 8gb ram and a compatible disk controller for esxi and a few disks
rzl
i don't have so much money...
RJarett
dude.. wtfu
stfu
i had to pay $50-75/book for tech books when i was learning
no google
no oreilley.com with a all book membership
rzl
what's the meaning of STFU ?
RJarett
shut the fu*k up
dont make excuses
you either want to do this or not
rzl
oh
RJarett
and you have alot of chances
rzl
yes i want
RJarett
And just remember, an OLD server will be alot more expensive to have powered on than a new one
rzl
i'l be back in a moment... gotta go to the toilet
avaia
fanstastic
rzl
ehmmm... i'm back
sorry RJarett
so ok
i'll get a new server
but first
RJarett
you could even do it for 400
buying some of the parts like the raid controller used
just make sure its all on VMWare esxi's hardware compatibility list
rzl
i think i'll go for a used thinkcentre... and use it as a server
that's the kind of hardware i can afford
RJarett
go for a new processor and power supply
rzl
ok
RJarett
like a amd quad core
rzl
wow
:)
what about the perl language ?
i knew it to be common among sysadmins
RJarett
eh what about it
its just something everyone knows some about
awk/sed too
just things to make life easier for us
rzl
mmmh... right
ok, it's decided
i'll give centos a try
what about, say, fedora core ?
ops, fedora ?
RJarett
no
focus on server stuff
no desktop crap
rzl
ok
what brand of server do you like ?
ibm? hp? dell?
hypno
it depends on what you are gonna use it for.
are we talking about simple testing and playing around? cheap x86 gear will do just fine.
serious stuff? well, Oracle Sun has nice machines for a number of reasons, but so do HP and IBM. Take your pick based on price, support, performance, etc.
RJarett
fu*k oracle
sun servers have been giant pieces of sh*t since the x4x00 series
and dont expect any good support out of them
sun couldnt handle timely parts replacement when they were standalone
now as oracle i bet itll be way worse
oracle bought sun to make bigiron type systems
hypno
heh, how depressing.
RJarett
they will quit the little server business soon
And abandon all the current customers with it
hypno
you think they will abandon, say, the T2-machines as well?
RJarett
probably
ever used oracle on the high core # cpus?
niagara or the previous was terrrrible and slow
hypno
customers are, yes. t5220 or whatever the model. 64 "cpus"..
you'll get license issues with those machines tho, as you are running on so many cpus. hence you need to start with zones and whatever else nonsense.
RJarett
well not just that, but oracle couldnt ever get their crap tuned to work well on it
hypno
the IBM Power stuff seems very nice. we have an old power machine and it screams compared to sparc stuff.
RJarett
ill stick with amd
sun x4x00 and x2x00 series.. the diagram for using the box had a picture of a paperclip to turn the box on
it got worse from there
hypno
linux64 and amd?
RJarett
yeah
life has been great since i ditched sun/sparc/etc
hypno
oh, heh.
RJarett
and if i can ever ditch 90% of my oracle DBs itll be great too
their sales team has been giant cocks lately
car salesman tactics
"ohh ill have to check with my manager about a discount"
"youll never get a deal this good"
yeah not until next end of quarter or year
hypno
wow! soon you are gonna sell us mysql too. you're like the inverse of the typical oracle consultant, heh.
RJarett
or in 3 months when your ass is fired
no mysql = oracl
heh im a pissed off ex employee who is just sick as hell of their pricing and crap
and crap they put me through with migration of licenses being a 2+ year process
hypno
ah, i see.
RJarett
and fees on top pretty much invalidating any licensing credit
hypno
well, for me oracle stuff means hard cash. dito for sun stuff really. that is why i'm in it.
RJarett
it makes me money too
zasz
its because you know oracle that you make that six fig salary
RJarett
but i also see that almost everything i use it for could easily be switched with enterprisedb (postgres adv server)
zasz
so stop whining
RJarett
zasz: no its because i know alot about everything
zasz
lol w/e
RJarett
this week, i built up a new netapp system. no training no nothing. but itll be a kick ass setup. same with emc, vmware, etc etc
gimme sqlserver i can pull off the same thing
zasz
blah blah all simple hsit
you get all you rmoney because of oracle
you are in denial
RJarett
not really
zasz
not a lot of people are patient enough to learn oracle so they get th ebig bucks
hypno
RJarett: well, yes, or some other scheme like object databases or fu*king textfiles. but the point is: do you make even remotely as much money of postgres as on oracle?
RJarett
ill take a CCIEs salary anyday
zasz
ccie's are very rare as well
go get your ccie and drop oracle then
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