logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #oracle / 2010 / April / 28 / 1
Trengo
as400 is a small computer
and db2 is ibm's baby, just like as400 and os400
and there's oracle for aix
i was under the impression that any modern pc is far more powerful than an as400...
TheBonsai
blubb
Xgc
Trengo: If you consider that the AS/400 was introduced in 1987, that gives you an idea of the technology available at the time.
TheBonsai
it's useless to compare as/400 to pc
or even mainframes to pc
two worlds
(with their oen shadow and light, each)
*own
Xgc
Trengo: Fairly limited by today's standards (even compared to todays desktop standards).
Trengo: Probably a factor of 1000 to 10000 difference in performance.
as a rough guess based on the vague data provided online.
Could even be 100000 times or more.
RJarett
huh?
what did i walk in on?
Xgc
Just wondering about the old AS/400 performance.
RJarett
id take an old ass as400 with a huge disk array over a new desktop or small server with a cheap few disk sas jbod
Xgc
It's hard to tell how many of the newer processors IBM pushed into it.
         

RJarett
everythings gotten faster but disks
ampex
RJarett: SSDs
RJarett
not much. plus at the cost of extremely short life
ampex
RJarett: not much faster than disks? have you used any?
RJarett
yeap
ampex
RJarett: life is comparable on enterprise (SLC based) SSDs
RJarett
plus i often use 512gb and 1TB nand based flash cache units
ampex: no.. no it isnt
drink more of the koolaid fanboy
plus ESD's are 10-15x more expensive than their physical counterparts
if not more in the case of EMC
ampex
I never said anything about cost
Seagate 15K SAS drives have 1.6 million hours MTBF, Intel X25-E SSDs 2 million
RJarett
heh
cute you actually trust that
ampex
cure that you don't without any real world experience to back it up
cute rather
I realize that MTBF values are to be taken with a grain of salt
or a few sacks
RJarett
especially since write cycles on a physical disk is not a huge indicator of its life
ampex
but Intel standing behind their product in such a way has to mean something
RJarett
no ESD in a enterprise san is an intel
whats that tell you?
ampex
enterprise san manufacturers are behind on their technology
RJarett
no.. no they arent
which is why they dont use their units
ampex
so what DO they use?
fusion i/o?
RJarett
fusion io arent ssd like a typical ESD
ampex
right, this I know
RJarett
only HP sources fusion io
but more for their blades
ampex
so what does emc use then?
         

RJarett
STEC
and another company i forget the name of
ampex
so what makes their drives so much better than Intel's?
RJarett
intels products are fragile sh*t?
ampex
says who?
RJarett
many cases faking mlc for slc
failures at fast controllers
ampex
they have two product lines
one slc and one mlc
RJarett
lack of fiber controllers
ampex
what's to fake?
and how does fiber compare in throughput to sas/sata?
can stec SSDs do more than 3Gb/sec per drive?
RJarett
seriously not worth this discussion
yes.. yes they can.
depends on which drive
ampex
and how much more than the intel drives are they?
RJarett
10-20k$/200gb model
plus even fusion io and higher end manufacturers are saying their units are rated for 5TB/day transfer
thats pretty low
i asked fusionio about a 20+TB/day workload on writes
guy was sort of puzzled by it.
i like their product alot
but thats something you need to take into account
you use the device for fast writes at $24k for a 320gb SLC model
ampex
so Intel says 100GB per day for their MLC drives
RJarett
but thats only going to last 3 years maybe
lol
you realize how little 100gb a day is ?
ampex
right
RJarett
thats like 30 minutes of my night time processing
life on MLC is terrible
id destroy a MLC version of a intel in a month
pliant
thats the name of the big efd one now
sas interfaced
plus, intels dont offer multiple sector size do they?
raids require 512, 520 and 528bytes/sector
sans i mean
for ECC
SANs run every sector with a clean and parity processed and calc every 512byte and save it in the extra 8byte or 16byte sector
ampex
so what kind of drives support that?
RJarett
REAL enterprise SSD and special HDs
http://download.intel.com/design/flash/nand/extreme/319984.pdf
notice page 7
1 sector = 512 byte
ampex
so what kind of HDs?
who makes them?
RJarett
every manufacturer who does drives tends to make a special family for enterprise SANs
ampex
I get nothing when I search for 520k sector size on google
RJarett
most of my units are fujitsu and WD
520byte
ampex
or 528k sector size
right, my bad
the intel controller has error correction and uses some of the drive's capacity for it
this doesn't mean it uses a larger sector size
RJarett
dude, you really shouldnt think you have the brain power to doubt what i say
have you even ever used a SAN before?
ampex
yes, but not an SSD based one
RJarett
had to do high IO benchmarking?
an equallogic or a real san?
and no md3000 or md1000 dont count
or did some storage guy just give a lun
Junior
yello :)
cofeineSunshine
mornning!
stede
hi
i try to create a database with "dbca" and it fails in the end with an error message tellign something about "can not mount repository.." ... i'm going to upload a screenshot soon
KeiKurono
morning
TheBonsai
hi. any idea how to get a controlfile out from ASM storage (NOMOUNT)?
admin0
hi
is it safe to change timezone of a linux server running oracle, while oracle is running
a2n
Hi, i insert date type cell, '28-APR-10', works in sql developer, failed in OADC with vs 2005. any ideas?
mator
admin0, usually running application have it's own time (in linux) when they were started, so new system time settings will only affect newly run processes (which can be oracle too)... it's a general advice to reboot (as in solaris changing timezone).
a2n
got a ORA-01843 err code.
nope
hmm, oracle enterprise linux, is it free to use?
do I get updates, or do I have to pay for support to get updates?
DiscordianUK
The latter
You pay for updates
nope
damn, hehe
DiscordianUK
You might want to look at CentOS as an alternative also based on RHEL
nope
yeah, but they dont have 5.5 out yet
and I really want to reinstall my workstation :)
DiscordianUK
(Action) shrugs
5.5 is real soon now I gather
nope
yeah, seems the isos are delivered to the QA team
hmm, maybe I should go for oracle linux on our oracle servers instead of rhel
usn_work
.
mator
nope, better to stick with rhel
stede
i try to install a database on centOS ... while running dbca it comes up with this error: http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/3732/dbcaerror.png
nope
mator: why?
it should be pretty much the same codebase
(99% certain we will use rhel though)
mator
nope, because no one cares about oracle linux and everyone is using rhel/centos ? :)
stede, there's a log file mentioned on the picture... and besides it tell you that it is not a critical error and you can create your database later
nope
mator: hehe
we use rhel in production, never centos
centos works nicely for testing here though
might even try 5.5 when its out on my workstation
things work poorly here with ubuntu 9.10 for some reason
suspecting hw issues
Trengo
ubuntu lol
mator
i hate ubuntu
every version
not that we don't using it here, but on my expirience it's only for desktops and no chance for servers
nope
key word is workstation )
:)
although I`ve used ubuntu server lts on servers without any issues
mator
my workstation is fedora, running from version 9
nope, seems we have a different grade server OS requirements :)
nope
last time I used rpm based desktop os, was when Ximian Desktop was available :)
mator
(running from version 9 till the latest)
nope
mator: it depends on usage
our support ticket system runs in debian
stede
mator: i thought that too, but as long the db is not working afterwards i want to eleminate any error furing installation ... logfile says maybe says something about ORACLE_HOSTNAME not set ... was not mentioned in the documentation that this is needed
nope
3rd party apps etc runs on rhel
hmm, choices...
ubuntu 10.04, fedora 13, centos 5.5
Trengo
consider solaris too
nope
on workstation?
Trengo
why not?
nope
have to learn everyhing over
hehe
Trengo
i'd go with centos for everything
nope
are there solaris distros targeted towards desktop use, or would that be opensolaris?
Trengo
whats in a sysadmin/dba desktop?
nope
here, thats ubuntu, centos, xp
Trengo
no i mean
nope
ubuntu for me
Trengo
whats special in a sysadmin/dba desktop?
nope
ahh
Trengo
all i really need is firefox and xterms
;)
nope
:)
mator
nope, solaris is hard to use for desktop, opensolaris is a bit better, it's like "solaris - opensolaris" and "rhel - fedora" comparision
nope
unfortunately I need vmware workstation aswell locally
mator: yeah, we have 3 solaris servers here
a bit different from the opensolaris server I have at home
mator
but since it's *solaris, it needs a bunch of memory for java
Trengo
opensolaris seems cute for playing but i dont have that much spare time to play
nope
I had to upgrade to a devel release, due to a smb/cifs bug
nasty bug aswell, but luckily nothing that would cause data loss
StHa
Hello. I ran I test on MySQL today with MySQL Views. which had a bad performance. I was wondering if Oracle might have same issues regarding the performance of views? We've got a client which is experiencing great loads when querying the database and he's using Oracle Views
mator
StHa, put somewhere "mysqladmin ext" on pastebin
StHa
mator, what would you like to know? Like what kind of info?
mator
StHa, cache / thread / keys / sort info
table
StHa
hm. I didn't actually use a representative table because it's not the same as the one the client has. (we don't have access to that yet) but I was just testing how Views work in MySQL. and the first thing I noticed was the performance which was terrible. but this could be because the targetting table doesn't have indices at the moment. Therefore I was wondering if Oracle Views might have a performance issue as well. Or that it is just fixable by u
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