logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2015 / July / 31 / 1
JordiGH
,g ams notices frogs and birds
fsbot
[g] http://www.ams.org/notices/200902/
http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/%3Fp%3D1506
mrmyers
Math is all lies. That's why I love it.
miskatonic
then it's science fiction
mrmyers
There's too much truth in physics.
JordiGH
Fuco: ErdQs was alive in our time and was a total frog.
bpalmer
And Computer Science is all truths.
You get to ask 2 questions.
ryouma
frog?
fsbot
ribbit
         

ryouma
fsbot++
fsbot
Noted, ryouma. One fsbot-point for fsbot!
JordiGH
ryouma: rtfl
http://www.ams.org/notices/200902/
Fuco
JordiGH: oh dyson is lovely, thanks for that article
mrmyers
bpalmer: CS is the triumph of lies over truth! You lie to a block of silicone and tell it it's a register machine. You lie to a register machine and tell it it's a turing machine, etc etc.
Fuco
I will read it over the weekened
ryouma
JordiGH: pdf is annoying. i just wanted to know the distinction. for anybody else, bird is lofty and conceptual while frog is details. or something.
kovrik`
good morning everyone!
JordiGH
ryouma: Get a better pdf reader, it's not that annoying.
miskatonic
rms wants emacs to be able to read and wysiwyg-edit pdfs of something like that
Fuco
edit pdfs, wat
JordiGH
editable pdfs is in fact the default format for Scribus.
It can't edit any pdfs, though, only the ones it produces.
aidalgol
That seems... weird.
wasamasa
phew, finally rewrote a crappy helper function I didn't understand anymore
aidalgol
What advantage does it have over just editing the source Scribus document?
wasamasa
or rather, I didn't ever understand
JordiGH
aidalgol: The pdf *is* the source Scribus document.
aidalgol
Oh! I thought it had its own format.
wasamasa
all I can conclude is that setq in a while condition is evil
aidalgol
wasamasa: Yes, that is pretty evil.
         

wasamasa
aidalgol: see `derived-mode-p'
aidalgol
It's bad enough in a fully procedural language like C, but in lisp, that's just evil.
wasamasa
I did modify it for looking up whether one mode is derived from any mode of a list
added functionality for checking for aliases
and then it proke on paradox and went into an endless loop :D
*broke
ryouma
JordiGH: i download from gui browser, then hasve to do the file. i don't trust the built in firefox reader and it is not good enough.
the web wasn't made to be a bunch of monolithic files like .pdf
bpalmer
pdf supports external links and embedding resources within it
miskatonic
I do not know how RMS imagines to be able to let emacs do wysiwyg-editing, but he already thought about it decades ago.
mrmyers
The web wasn't made. It just sort of happened, like a forest fire, or a train-wreck.
ryouma
bpalmer: yeah but it would assume a sufficient choice of pdf plugins for browsers. firefox is already so buggy that it impedes accessibility. requiring its pdf reader to not suck is prohibitive. web was pretty much made for html.
bremner
do you want to tell him about JavaScript, or shall I?
ryouma
web is supposed to not be presentation-centric. pdf authors need to be less picky about how it looks to the user, and provide html also, so that the user can control presentation.
user-centric for presentation
think screen readers. large fonts. different displays. different use cases. parsers. all of that is broken with pdf.
gregnwosu
hello ive been able to get my emacs dev environment running on a fairly powerful server at work, any idea how i can get emacs to use more memeory?
legumbre
allocate more objects
ryouma
gc-cons-threshold
JordiGH
ryouma: The web kinda was meant to be text and monolithic, much like pdfs with hyperlinks.
What I guess it wasn't was to be in a printer.
ryouma: Let us not forget what "http" stands for.
wilornel
Hey guys! How can I move my cursor up without going to the previous line? I am trying to go back on a wrapped line
wasamasa
gregnwosu: use it for IRC and never shut it down
aruro
guys, anyone tried haskell-emacs?
forcer
(Action) sits on hands.
bremner
aruro: what's that then?
aruro
u write emacs functions in haskell
and then just call them in elisp
well, it is just ffi
mrmyers
ryouma: The web has no coherent purpose or design. Like God, it simply is that it may be.
hodapp
Like God, it was invented by man and caused a lot of problems.
forcer
mrmyers: But, like god, it's fun to define it to want what you yourself want, to give your own desires a higher purpose ...
aruro
how do i get shell command output into a string?
(shell-command) seems not right
apropos did not give much results
forcer
aruro: `shell-command-to-string'
aruro
ty, hm why apropos did not show it
i does appear in tab search though
forcer
aruro: apropos possibly was only searching commands, not functions
aruro
i see, thank you
:)
forcer
You're welcome :-)
aidalgol
JordiGH: OK, but then we have CSS media classes for various outputs, it's just that testing with all possible user agents is a pain.
ryouma
forcer: i think keeping the web accessible, which is possible in small part by making small changes, such as having html in addition to or instead of pdf in some cases, is a purpose worth pursuing
forcer: perhaps you disagree
wasamasa
aruro: Fuco claims he used it
miskatonic
sounds a bit like pymacs
wasamasa
mhh
it's completely useless to people who hate elisp
miskatonic
just with haskell instead of python, of course
wasamasa
so that cuts down the target userbase
forcer
ryouma: I was making some light fun of the "the web was designed for ..." arguments, not "they should provide HTML in addition to PDF" :-)
Fuco
wasamasa: why the fu*king hells would I program emacs in haskell!
hodapp
I program Haskell in Emacs...
Fuco
well
I would quote someone famous but it's not going to matter
hodapp
"I'm not responsible for my own actions!" -Marilyn Monroe ?
bremner
You know who else programmed emacs in haskell!?!!?!!
uh...I got nuthin...
hodapp
bremner: Richard Stallman's clean-shaven alter ego?
bremner
hodapp: yeah, but it was the late '90s and a VC made him do it
oh, no wait, that was Brendan Eich and JS
hodapp
OHH NOOOOOOO
netspliiiit
miskatonic
I saw the netsplit coming minutes ago when everything went unusually silent
legumbre
let's escape the net
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