logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2015 / July / 24 / 1
selat
,(list 1 2)
fsbot
(1 2) ..(cons)
matthavard
Dude guys!!! If you're in ERC, Put your cursor on fsbot's Hebrew text and then move around! Left moves your cursor right and right moves your cursor left! Is ERC doing that for me or is that something unicode specifies?
avshalom
matthavard: i think that's part of emacs' wonderful bidi support
hohum
it doesn't work like that for me
I can highlight in the correct direction
matthavard
bidi support... googling
oh... bi directional text
avshalom
matthavard: but i might think that arrows will behave differently, since they are right-character, whereas C-f is forward-character
matthavard
avshalom: arrows and C-f C-b work the same for me
avshalom
not sure about the specifics.
also, don't know how it behaves when L-to-R and R-to-L are interleaved in e.g. a paragraph
         

benaiah
fu*k hiccups
Fuco
is there any downside to doing "git gc"?
cluck
benaiah: don't! someone might choke to death
wqer
Fuco: You may not be able to recover unreferenced data once you purge it.
ryouma
unicode has a special character that changes the direction in which you type. perhaps it is defined to affect arrows too, although that sounds strange.
so you do the character and then every chara fter that goes left
Fuco
wqer: if it's unreferenced why is it a problem? Doesn't that mean it's lost anyway
avshalom
ryouma: right. also would be curious if ERC re-defines the keys
benaiah
cluck: with some of these I feel like I already am
klugez
Fuco: It can still be recovered through the reflog. But yeah, otherwise it's lost.
kovrik
guys, how to draw, say, UML diagram in org-mode?
ryouma
kovrik: ,g bernt norang org-mode
kovrik
what?
ryouma
kovrik: ,,g bernt norang org-mode
fsbot
[g] http://doc.norang.ca/
http://gitwiki.org/Tests/org-mode.org
wgreenhouse
rudybot: later tell avshalom in recent emacsen, C-b and C-f are always affected by bidi text direction (e.g. C-f will always be "forward" a char depending on script), but arrows optionally follow visual "right" and "left" instead. see `visual-order-cursor-movement'.
rudybot
wgreenhouse: I asked `MemoServ' to forward the message to avshalom.
ryouma
kovrik
ryouma: thank you
well
no...I want to draw them visually in org-mode
like org-table-mode
but for diagrams
wgreenhouse
org has something like that for ditaa, but that's not uml, it's ditaa
kovrik
something like artistic-mode inside org-mode
         

wgreenhouse
I think that same document has some examples of that
ryouma
i like the state diagram one
kovrik
ok, I'll check it out, thanks
ryouma
kovrik: oh, dunno. there is an ascii art mode in emacs
kovrik
that's because I want to see the result in emacs' org buffer, not in some external .png file
myztic
few questions: 1) want to use lisp as a personal everyday scripting language (so I don't learn it just4fun), possible and reasonable to do so?
2) which lisp dialect to use?
Would have gone for Common Lisp and the Land of Lisp book to start with
kovrik
Scheme/Racket
wgreenhouse
elisp :)
myztic
I thought I was writing in #lisp :D
kovrik
well, it's difficult to use elisp outside of emacs
clojure is not very good as a scripting language
wgreenhouse
myztic: if you write in #lisp, they will tell you to use CL. despite the name that is pretty much exclusively a CL channel
ryouma
elisp is great for that but not if you intend to use it in pipelines seamlessly in shell scripts like awk
kovrik
so, CL or Scheme or Racket
wgreenhouse
ryouma: "seamlessly...like awk" doesn't describe any moment in my life as a computer user, I don't think :)
unless it's copypastaing someone else's awk
ryouma
wgreenhouse: computing sucks
myztic
racket seems interesting
wgreenhouse: than I am glad about my mistake ;)
ryouma
why do i get the impression that #lispers would say that either what you want to do is suitable for cl and only cl, but if cl can't do it, then you shouldn't want to do it?
wasamasa
I use CHICKEN
this happened after finding out that CL is unsuitable for both scripting and spitting out executables :P
ryouma
why is that?
oh, unsuitable for either i guess you mean
i thought some effort had gone into it
wasamasa
well, there are pretty ridiculous shebangs you can use for the scripting part
but the executables part, eh
ryouma
that was the complaint like 15 years ago. i find it amazing that it would still be true.
octalsrc
in org-mode,
wasamasa
everything except ECL and the commercial implementations can just dump out a more or less huge blob of the interpreter/compiler and some native code embedded into it
octalsrc
do you all indent content to match its header, or leave it un-indented?
ryouma
octalsrc: definitely have everything at column 0
wgreenhouse
wasamasa: most CL implementations make executables by dumping core
nothing wrong with that :)
ryouma
octalsrc: it would drive me crazy to have things change indentation all the time
wgreenhouse
and the commercials also dump core, but they flense some stuff out of it first
wasamasa
yeah
I can't believe that kind of optimization hasn't hit them yet
octalsrc
ryouma: cool
it seemed neater to do that
wqer
octalsrc: I indent it by one level
ryouma
imo the default should be to not indent
wgreenhouse
wasamasa: CL is the java of lisps
wasamasa
with it it would have been acceptable, but without it's ridiculous
wgreenhouse
you don't optimize, you get bigger hardware
wasamasa
you run `strip` on it and it falls apart
myztic
I thought I could not go wrong there, oh, how naive
ryouma
(other good defaults to change include sub-superscript and indentation in source blocks
wasamasa
wgreenhouse: I guess
wgreenhouse
wasamasa: ,,doctordoctor
fsbot
Don't do that, then!
octalsrc
wqer: like all content is one level, regardless of header level?
parsnip
wqer
Actually I think I messed up. What I mean is that all the stars start on the same level. But the content inside the stars is indented.
wgreenhouse
wasamasa: `strip` is evil anyway; it's the reason gdb doesn't work in debian unless you install a special -dbg version of your package
because every package is stripped to save a few MB on disk
tromey
I think that's not unreasonable for a distro to do
many users still have bandwidth and disk constraints
myztic
which lisp dialect is the most relevant today (outside of emacs)?
tromey
and the debuginfo is only rarely useful
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