logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2015 / October / 2 / 1
jsgrant
nullie: At that point, one might as well scrap the whole thing and go to the extreme of idealistic perfection and attempt to write a proper DE/OS or similar.
taylanub
pkkm: jsgrant: bipt is done studying AFAIK. will possibly raise donations some time.
e1f
let's abandon emacs and launch the lifeboats
cvandusen
rudybot: seen lifeboats
rudybot
cvandusen: I've never seen lifeboats before
wgreenhouse
no lifeboats. we're unsinkable.
jsgrant
(Action) was a big proponent of Guilemacs when he first heard of it a good 3 or-so years ago, but at this point he's kinda past it. I'd much rather see a tighter push towards CL, it's obviously much closer to that maclisp-like paradigm anyways. :^P
taylanub
and I'd say it's in alpha stage, with difficult to solve problems. a while ago (a year or two?) I said something like expecting it to become usable in 5-10 years; might have been a pretty realistic guess.
jsgrant
If he was to take donations though, I'd throw in like 50-100 usd like though.
likely*
         

e1f
let's use the bloated corpses of vi users as life preservers
fullbit_
Hello all, I'm trying to find out what is causing these "auto completion" buffers to show up automatically now. This didn't occur until I updated all of my installed packages and unfortunately I did not notice until it was too late to deduce from the update.
jsgrant
e1f: Isn't that the point of Spacemacs? :^I
taylanub
jsgrant: it's not so obvious whether the superficial closeness to CL helps much. there aren't actually any serious problems with the Scheme and Elisp integration in Guile.
e1f
so we're saved, then! \o/
wgreenhouse
taylanub: and the lack of any decent display option in CL that can handle bidi and unicode and perform even as well as emacs is pretty glaring
tromey
adding another language to the mix is a negative all on its own
the CL idea is not to add another
taylanub
I'd be surprised if a CL/Elisp integration could be done any better than the Scheme/Elisp integration in Guile.
wasamasa
wgreenhouse: browsers, duh
tromey
it wouldn't be integration
not in that sense
taylanub
tromey: do you mean making Elisp more *like* CL in that it gains more features? because in that case, Guile has the infrastructure for all those features...
wasamasa
wgreenhouse: also, pango should support that
tromey
we've been over this a lot
wasamasa
wgreenhouse: putting it on the screen is a different thing
wgreenhouse
wasamasa: point me to the CL pango glue.
tromey
but basically I think the best goal is to have a single language; or at most 2
not elisp+guilescheme+C + insanity
wasamasa
wgreenhouse: must be one line at most to write
wgreenhouse: anyway, no way I wouldn't use it from C/CHICKEN
wgreenhouse
wasamasa: stumpwm has basically abandoned ever doing it
wasamasa
wgreenhouse: oh well
wgreenhouse
so I don't think that's the case
         

wasamasa
pfft
I bet they just abhor it's not lisp already
jsgrant
taylanub: Ah, I'm not speaking of on a technical level really. More so that ... the change of styles between the two hurts my brain, and it would be hard for me (or at least I imagine) to be able to switch between two languages 'on the fly' on a regular basis. I know that the intention is at some level at the core more-so than making Scheme a first class lang in Emacs -- but it's almost inevitable a non-trivial amount would work it se
into the ecosystem if it comes about.
wasamasa
oh and glib
too much real-world compromises and crappiness for any CL person to deal with
except if it's a CL system, then it's OK
jsgrant
But I could easily just be being a baby about this. :^P
taylanub
jsgrant: users won't touch Scheme though, in the normal case
tromey
I thought everybody used GIR for bindings now
wgreenhouse
wasamasa: also that's only one half of the problem; CL also has no decent way to handle unicode input
wasamasa: so e.g. stumpwm mode line can display cyrillic but I can't type it into stumpwm input boxes
tromey
rather than fix on CL as it is, I look more at evolving elisp in a CL-ish direction
wasamasa
wgreenhouse: that could be solved by using xcb I guess
taylanub
jsgrant: (or rather, don't have to)
tromey
I don't think elisp will ever be CL
wgreenhouse
wasamasa: yeah and there's no CL xcb glue
wasamasa
tromey: let's make you maintainer to make it happen
wgreenhouse: tsk tsk
tromey
hahaha
wasamasa
wgreenhouse: even emacs has xcb glue
tromey
I wish but no
gotta run
wasamasa
wgreenhouse: it's a matter of turning xml into OOPish code
wgreenhouse: the hard part is testing that it works and using it actually
ryouma
one thing that annoys me about elisp is that it sometimes implements a feature that's present in, for example, the cl spec, and makes the function signature /slightly/ different
tromey
there's an emacs branch for GIR bindings IIRC
wasamasa
wgreenhouse: that's a bit too low-level for me
wgreenhouse
wasamasa: 2015 elisp is a significantly less dead codebase and community than 2015 CL, in fact.
tromey
ok ttfn
wasamasa
wgreenhouse: fun
GIR?
"Did you mean girl bindings?"
ooh, " Auto-generate bindings for GObject based libraries at run time using FFI"
wgreenhouse
GObject Introspection mumble
nzst
just hearing about this http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/10/01/445034424/active-shooter-reported-at-oregon-community-college :(
rudybot
http://teensy.info/C9XSNwslQU
wasamasa
ruffle?
wgreenhouse
xwidgetmacs uses it
jsgrant
wgreenhouse: Can the same be said about Scheme, or does Racket skew it to moderate comparative relevance?
wasamasa
cool
jsgrant: not like scheme pretends being relevant or big or anything
jsgrant: I'd expect you to be on their side actually
jsgrant
wasamasa: Does CL?
wasamasa
jsgrant: yes?
tali713
,wasamasa++
fsbot
Noted, tali713. One wiki-point for wasamasa!
jsgrant
wasamasa: On what side?
wasamasa
jsgrant: I dunno, you racket and guile using zealot
wgreenhouse
jsgrant: scheme's huge. it's even in malware.
wasamasa
lol
doesn't sound like a good thing to me
ryouma
yay selling point
tali713
wgreenhouse: biggest scheme success story.
wasamasa
but eh, I don't really care, I'm pretty happy writing CHICKEN once in a often
wgreenhouse
,g directrevenue tinyscheme
fsbot
[g] https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Scheme_Programming/TinyScheme
http://philosecurity.org/2009/01/12/interview-with-an-adware-author
wasamasa
"M: [sheepishly] Yes, I did. I got to write half of it in Scheme, which probably means that I deployed more Scheme runtime than anybody else on the planet."
wgreenhouse
wasamasa: it is in the sense that nobody would dream of hiding a CL impl in a malware
wasamasa
clearly we need more malware authors deploying your FTL in the wild
ryouma
,ftl
fsbot
ryouma: FTL is [0/5] Faster Than Light (a.k.a. superluminal).
[1] Fruit of the loom
[2] MFTL without the M
[3] [3] For the Lose.
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