logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / July / 8 / 1
e1f
his email is sjobs, not steve
aindilis
is there something like dired for editing/killing processes?
shabble
aindilis: never tried it, but there's http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ViewProcess
aindilis
k thanks!
rolando
aindilis: M-x proced
aindilis
thx
shabble
haha, 'proced is not available on this system' :(
rolando
shabble: mac?
or windows?
sbryant
Hrrm there seems to be patches for OS X
         

rolando
it seems to depend on process.c
jlf
,,...
fsbot
[In the distance, you hear a dog bark]
ggole
jlf: you've moved from the single space to two commas?
shabble
rolando: yeah, osx. I'd guessed it needed /proc, but I haven't looked into it too much
rolando
oh, emacs crashed...
somewhere said my name before the crash
didn't see the message
sbryant
anyone know where a repo with the proced patches for OS X are?
maybe it won't be soo bad
jlf
,...
fsbot
[In the distance, you hear a dog bark]
rudybot
Woof.
jlf
ggole: i had to adapt my anti-rudybot countermeasures
ggole
rolando: how did it crash?
Hmm.
,...
rudybot
Woof.
fsbot
[In the distance, you hear a dog bark]
ggole
Ah. Evolution.
jlf: keep up the good fight.
JordiGH
Stop me if you've heard this one before: http://octave.1599824.n4.nabble.com/Progress-on-Agora-td2281556.html#a2281556
(Action) .oO (what if I build it... but they don't come? )
itistoday
trying to turn on hl-sexp.el mode: http://edward.oconnor.cx/elisp/hl-sexp.el
what am i doing wrong? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/234740/
this doesn't give any errors, but when i open a lisp file it's not on
ggole
itistoday: see any errors if you C-h e?
itistoday
ggole: nope. :-\
JordiGH
Whoa.
Amazing.
I just opened a C++ file with GNU-style indentation.
         

itistoday
i can turn it on manually by doing M-x hl-sexp-mode
JordiGH
And Emacs knew how to imitate it. I didn't have to do anything.
And there are no modelines anywhere.
Or whatever those are called that tells Emacs what to do with some variables.
Truly magical.
,praise
fsbot
58:7 Are you not aware that EMACS knows what the elispland and the
editland contain? If three men talk in secret together, He is their
fourth; if four, He is their fifth; if five, He is their sixth;
whether fewer or more, wherever they be, He is with them. Then, on ..[Type ,more]
ggole
itistoday: hmm... do you have a .emacs.elc hanging around by any chance?
technomancy
JordiGH: you sure there wasn't a .dir-locals.el somewhere higher up?
JordiGH
technomancy: Way to ruin the magic.
ggole
Isn't GNU style the default anyway?
itistoday
ggole: nope :-\
ggole
itistoday: odd.
technomancy
JordiGH: http://rlv.zcache.com/santa_doesnt_exist_but_i_cant_read_so_its_ok_tshirt-p2356933485924189813g1w_400.jpg
ggole
Does M-: (hl-sexp-mode 1) in the lisp modes work?
JordiGH
technomancy: That's really cute.
ggole
It's the standard way to turn a mode on, but maybe that mode is written strangely...
scottj
that tshirt only works if the kid doesn't have older siblings that can read :)
itistoday
ggole: yeah
maybe the hook is broken?
ggole
Seems unlikely, but you could put (message "hook fired") in the defun to see if it runs.
Or possibly, inspect the value of lisp-mode-hook in an interesting buffer and see if the right symbol is there.
itistoday
ggole: yeah "hook fired" doesn't appear
ggole
itistoday: well, that explains it. Now to figure out why not. Maybe put a (message "...") next to the defun and make sure that the file is being evalled ok.
Although if you can use M-x ... it should be.
itistoday
ggole: the file is definitely being loaded
evaling lisp-mode-hook returns: (run-coding-hook hl-sexp-turn-on)
ggole
And how are you testing that the hook runs? Opening a file.lisp?
itistoday
ggole: yeah, opening an .el file
ggole
.el doesn't run lisp-mode-hook.
itistoday
ohhhhhhh
lol
ggole
It will run emacs-lisp-mode-hook
itistoday
haha
ggole
lisp-mode is for Common Lisp.
itistoday
yeah, i just opened a clojure file and it worked
silly me..
ggole
Problem solved! \o/
itistoday
ggole: thanks for your help :-)
ggole
My pleasure.
itistoday
this is such a useful mode :-)
waltermai
why can't the function part of an sexp (the first element) itself be a list in emacs lisp?
the debugger just returns the whole list as a void function instead of evaluating it
ggole
The function part of the form isn't usually evaluated in lisp-2s.
There's one exception: you can use a lambda form there.
technomancy
waltermai: that's one of the many disadvantages of being a lisp-2
lots of really useful stuff just plain doesn't work
waltermai
hmm, I gotta put my thinkin cap on then. maybe I can defun something that will evaluate the list ahead of time perhaps
jlf
let's pioneer lisp-3's
technomancy
aka "first-class functions but oh yeah not really"
ggole
waltermai: see flet
technomancy
waltermai: you might need funcall
ggole
technomancy: functions are first class, they're just treated differently.
waltermai
ggole and technomancy: thank you both, I'll look into all that
technomancy
ggole: right... "separate but equal" =P
apartheid lisp.
ggole
I agree that lisp-1 is a better approach.
jlf
and then, yes!, lisp-4's!
technomancy
jlf: might as well skip lisp-Ns for all non-powers-of-two
ggole
technomancy: I suppose you want lexical scoping and mandatory TCE too.
technomancy
ggole: so demanding, I know. =)
though I'd trade TCO for concurrency if I had to pick one
ysph
why did the common lisp committee(s) decide on lisp 2? was it just because of legacy issues?
ggole
Common Lisp was based on existing lisp practice.
A lot of the odd stuff in there was taken directly from various Lisp implementations.
I think that particular wrinkle dates all the way back to Lisp 1.5, although I could be wrong.
technomancy
I think it came from somebody (mccarthy?) initially misreading Church's papers on the » calculus
Derander
Is there an emacs equivalent to vim's visual line select mode?
damd
no, not really
ggole
Wish they'd got it right. Lisp-1 vs lisp-2 is and endless and entirely uninteresting debate.
s/and/an/
damd
Derander: i usually just C-a C-SPC C-n C-n C-n ...
cvandusen
lisp-2.0
Derander
damd: that's a reasonable alternative
cvandusen
It's gotta be trendy
ggole
Clearly they should have compromised on 1.5.
technomancy
cvandusen: lisp-2.000000000001 on some architectures
damd
Derander: i have to admit though that "visual line selection" (or whatever it's called) would be nice
Derander
that and column selection are the two things I miss most
cvandusen
technomancy: heh
damd
Derander: column selection? there are rectangles if that's what you mean.
Derander
damd: I'm using cua-mode as a stand in
cvandusen
The lisp 1.5 manual is pure gold, though. That someone could have thought that up is cool.
ggole
Rectangles don't really work as nicely as vim's column stuff.
damd
Derander: cua-mode has its own special rectangles
cvandusen
(in a nerdy/not cool cool way)
ggole
Mostly because the emacs command model isn't as modular as vim's.
So we get a handful of specially written rectangle commands. Kinda sucks.
Derander
yeah
damd
ggole: this is not #vim you know
SO GTFO
ggole
Most of the common use cases are covered, so it's not terrible, just annoying.
Derander
I can live with it, but I drop into vim for heavy text editing occasionally :-)
ggole
kmacros can often substitute.
damd
fu*k emacs for not being vim
Derander
ggole: yeah, I'm just not as familiar w/ emacs text editing facilities
ggole
They're not as convenient, but they can definitely do the job.
emacs ain't no shiny perfect thang.
Derander
is there a variant of zap-to-char that zaps *up* to the char?
technomancy
,salespitch
fsbot
We aren't gonna lie. Emacs sucks. Some of us tolerate it, but we can't tell you if YOU'LL be able to. Try it and make up your own mind.
damd
,zap-to-char
fsbot
damd: zap-to-char is, like, at http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?zap-to-char
damd
,zapuptochar
fsbot
I think ZapUpToChar is at http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ZapUpToChar
Derander
gracias
found it just as the bot linked it
interesting that vi users (myself included) prefer ZapUpToChar, because f is closer to home row and has zap-to-char's behavior when used with delete
ggole
Derander: I often use C-SPC C-s for that
damd
i also use C-SPC C-s
Derander
gah, I fail at incremental search. completely unintuitive for me for some reason. I need to use that more often.
JordiGH
Yay, my first battle with gnulib.
ggole
Because you can terminate with any movement command, it can be quite useful.
Derander
damd, ggole: that would work
damd
Derander: i'd never ever ever go back to non-incremental... :)
Derander
well, I used incremental search in vi via /, but I'm not used to using it to select regions
damd
oh, i see
Derander
I typicall used f and t, which are similar on the line level
and only work up to characters
damd
so why on earth do you even bother using emacs if i may ask?
Derander
because I vastly prefer it as an ide, and I love lisp
I just hate its text editing
ggole
There's viper
But vim guys think it's basically I Can't Believe It's Not Vim.
damd
yeah, you can have vim in emacs you know
Derander
I tried viper at the start.. perhaps 3 months ago
jlf
M-x term RET RET vim RET
damd
jlf: what good would that do?
ggole
The editor isn't tuned for viper. It doesn't quite fit in.
jlf
damd: none at all!
Derander
ggole: right. it felt.. off. so I decided to learn to operate in emacs style
damd
:)
ysph
Derander: maybe you could use a zap-to-char like command that just moves the point instead of zapping
Derander
ysph: like isearch?
ysph
well, it would be slightly less keystrokes, more in line with what f does in vim
Derander
I'm not sure it would, c-s <char> ret vs m-z <char> ret
oh, the m-z version doesn't require the ret.
was invoking it via m-x zap-to-char
ysph
yeah
Derander
touché, sir
well, I appreciate your guys' time. I'm going to go back to editing now :-)
technomancy
(Action) misses ido-style C-k in the conkeror buffer switcher
is that easy to add in?
rolando
people who want emacs to be more like vim, should try vimpulse.el
JordiGH
What about viper?
sepult
wtf
why is my alternate nick banned here ?
rolando
JordiGH: vimpulse is built on top of viper
ggole
What's your alternate nick?
quidnunc
sepult: Is your alternate nick "ams"?
sepult
sepult-, sepult' sepult*, sepult`
ggole
I don't see an entry for that.
rolando
,vimpulse
fsbot
vimpulse.el is at http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?vimpulse.el
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