logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / June / 9 / 1
aidalgol
And if you want emacsclient to background itself, use the -n option.
(aka --no-wait)
Sketch
lvh: i don't think you need the -x, but that might depend on your particular install
it probably won't hurt anything, though
lvh
aidalgol: Wait, why would I want emacsclient to go to the background?
quotemstr
lvh: Sometimes you just want to queue editing for later.
aidalgol
lvh: If you don't want it to wait indefinitely.
lvh
Is --daemon supposed to return me my shell prompt eventually?
It doesn't appear to be actually daemonizing.
Auto-saving...done
Back to top level.

It appears to be running at least. emacsclient -t no longer works.
Sketch
it returns me to a prompt
yonkeltron
as i was leaving the mens' room just now, this guy was walking in and he looked just like the GNU ox
buffalo, whatever
hair parted in the middle
cvandusen
Gnu?
         

fsbot
gnu is, like, a project by the GNU project. .. + other entries
yonkeltron
odd-looking eyeballs
jordanb
,gnu
fsbot
jordanb, I think gnu is [0] a project by the GNU project.
[1] on the web at http://gnu.org/,
[2] the OS, and Linux just one of its kernels,
[3] not UNIX,
[4] cool,
[5] awesome
cvandusen
(Action) looks up the definition of "cool"
jordanb
I guess 4 and 5 are from ams.
lvh
Sketch: 7324 ? Ss 0:03 emacs --daemon
Sketch
looks like it's running?
lvh
Sketch: Yep, but emacsclient -t just does nothing
I regularly see Auto-saving...done # so it's definitely running, emacsclient just doesn't work very well
it's something to do with dameon mode
ifI run it normally, I get a terminal emacs, and then emacsclient -t works
and emacsclient -t works too! yay
err emacsclient -c
it keeps messing up the default font though. Weird.
rryouumaa
,d abject
fsbot
5 definitions found
From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]:
Abject \Ab*ject"\ ([a^]b*j[e^]kt"), v. t. [From Abject, a.]
To cast off or down; hence, to abase; to degrade; to lower;
to debase. [Obs.] --Donne.
[1913 Webster] ..[Type ,more]
rryouumaa
,more
fsbot
From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]:
Abject \Ab"ject\ ([a^]b"j[e^]kt), n.
A person in the lowest and most despicable condition; a
castaway. [Obs.]
[1913 Webster]
Shall these abjects, these victims, these outcasts, ..[Type ,more]
rryouumaa
,d arrant
fsbot
3 definitions found
From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]:
Arrant \Ar"rant\, a. [OE. erraunt, errant, errand, equiv. to E.
errant wandering, which was first applied to vagabonds, as an
errant rogue, an errant thief, and hence passed gradually ..[Type ,more]
rryouumaa
,more
fsbot
into its present and worse sense. See Errant.]
Notoriously or pre["e]minently bad; thorough or downright, in
a bad sense; shameless; unmitigated; as, an arrant rogue or
coward.
[1913 Webster]
I discover an arrant laziness in my soul. --Fuller.
[1913 Webster] ..[Type ,more]
parolang
http://briancarper.net/blog/emacs-isnt-for-everyone
technomancy
lies!
AimHere
People with less than four fingers might find emacs difficult
         

cvandusen
"Until you're comfortable, you face the unpleasant task of un-learning all of your habits and forming new ones."
That's true regardless of what you're talking about.
milan`
"One possible way to deal with being unfamiliar with something is to become familiar with it." -- as I experienced it, most people tend to simply IGNORE anything not familiar
legumbre
1st rule of tautology club...
parolang
legumbre: hahah
cvandusen
I thought the first rule of tautology club was the first rule of tautology club?
parolang
Emacs is unfamiliar to people who are unfamiliar with it, until they become familiar with emacs.
milan`
you're honourable because you're in an honor society! ;)
parolang
People who have trouble with the default emacs keybindings will have some trouble with emacs keybindings; and if you don't understand the terminology you'll need to acquaint yourself with the terminology.
lvh
i have trouble with everything elses' default keybinds
where's my rant
legumbre
This problem can be problematic.
Sketch
parolang: or write blog posts ranting about how it should be changed
parolang
I think the rant is just another person who wants a polished, commercial product.
I think lots of people think the emacs default configuration sucks.
technomancy
the default does suck
lvh
I think most emacs users think the default sucks :)
technomancy
because it can't be changed without a huge political spat.
lvh
my vimrc was like 10 lines
milan`
i think the reasons for making the current default the default suck
wait, now i lost myself
lvh
Whereas my .emacs.d dir is 40M.
(Yarly.)
milan`
github it ;D
cvandusen
lvh: Doesn't that speak more to the extensibility of Emacs than any other thing?
parolang
I think it would be nice if emacs was more consistant.
lvh
cvandusen: Yes, I'm not positing it as a downside. I'm positing it as a HUGE upside.
quotemstr
Most of the justification for the current defaults has been lost in the sands of time.
milan`
(yet another sucky reason)
quotemstr
Most of the complaints arising when people propose changes aren't "the old ways are actually better for X, Y, and Z reasons", but "it's always been that way, goddangit"
rryouumaa
(Action) just got rid of vc's find file hook in his quest to remove all traces of vc from the system
lvh
Hysterical raisins!
quotemstr
More like hysterical prunes.
parolang
"Emacs doesn't even have line numbers by default, which I find absolutely essential, and you have to download a 3rd-party script to add them." ???
fsbot
Definitely
quotemstr
At least we have linum-mode.
And its being off by default is defensible.
technomancy
it boggles my mind that people find that useful
legumbre
technomancy: they're doing it wrong.
quotemstr
technomancy: Find what useful?
technomancy
quotemstr: linum-mode
milan`
(Action) wonders himself whats wrong with one linenum indicator in the modeline only
parolang
That was one of the comments to the article, btw.
quotemstr
technomancy: It's useful if you have an external tool that refers to line numbers.
cvandusen
You want line numbers? Use ISPF.
quotemstr
milan`: If I want to view line, say, X, I have to see what line number is displayed in the modeline, then perform subtraction to see where on the screen I should look.
technomancy
I can't think of a situation where M-g M-g wouldn't be sufficient
quotemstr
Or I can use goto-line, but that changes point and still involves a bunch of keystrikes.
linum-mode allows for instant lookup.
legumbre
tracking line numbers is the *compilation* buffer's job, not mine!
technomancy
quotemstr: still can't think of a situation where I would care about that.
quotemstr
legumbre: I don't have the luxury of compilation-mode patterns for every tool I might use.
milan`
quotemstr: valid point there, i think particularly if one is lost in someone elses humongouis text/code/whatever
quotemstr
technomancy: valgrind output.
technomancy
quotemstr: I make a point of not thinking about situations involving valgrind.
personal rule of mine.
quotemstr
linum-mode is a classic time-space tradeoff: that's why it's an option.
didi
Man, the Ubuntu package of emacs is always a little broken. That's a pity.
quotemstr
How so?
I think twb found a case where it was executing distro-specific code even when given -Q
didi
quotemstr: This time is the flyspell.
I could not recognize accented words.
s/I/It
quotemstr
Holy cow. The house I'm living in now only has 1,500 square feet. It always felt much larger.
didi: Wonderful. Locale? aspell?
didi: Does regular ispell work?
didi
quotemstr: I don't know. The regular ispell worked, I think. I just purged the whole thing and compiled and install a version myself.
There is always some little thing.
quotemstr
The Ubuntu people always struck me as more of the "I use eclipse ZOMG" type.
jordanb
The Ubuntu people all use textmate.
quotemstr
What's so great about Textmate?
didi
Some pray for gedit.
jordanb
It only works on OSX, making it elite
Also that ruby guy uses it.
johnw
textmate is especially good at mixed-mode editing
quotemstr
How does Textmate's mixed-mode editing work?
jordanb
No dowbut johnw has mastrubated his di*k raw about textmate.
johnw
it's syntax highlighting, text expansions, and even key macros, are hierarchical within the buffer
so, part of an HTML buffer can say, "Oh, this part is PHP"
quotemstr
No shame in learning how another editor handles a particular problem better.
johnw: So how is it different from mumamo?
johnw
it essentially has region-based major modes
jordanb
textmate is pure macwankery though.
cvandusen
what quotemstr said
johnw
well, it's not a bolt-on solution for one
it's part of the core attitude of textmate
so when you are in the PHP part of an HTML buffer, it's like you are in another buffer *for that section*
is mumamo that complete?
quotemstr
johnw: That's exactly what mumamo (and mmm-mode before it) do.
johnw
yeah, but mmm-mode, at least, really sucked at it
cvandusen
johnw: I think Lennart is going in that direction (at least with the trunk of nxhtml)
quotemstr
johnw: That's because Emacs modes aren't really good at it.
johnw
ok then
isn't that what I'm saying here?
that's how textmate differs: it's good at it
quotemstr
I wish Lennart would publish a "how to make your mode work good with mumamo-mode and do other things good too" guide.
cvandusen
aye
quotemstr
johnw: Sure. I was asking how the model differed, not how the implementation could improve. :)
AIUI, mumamo (well, nxhtml) has a ton of mode-specific hacks that never get pushed upstream.
I know Lennart has a bunch of espresso-mode/js-mode patches he's never sent my directly; I've been meaning to integrate them sometime.
Monkeypatching can only get you so far.
jordanb
Teh best web framework ever is ASP.NET, clearly.
quotemstr
ASP.NET isn't bad, actually.
jordanb
Of course not!
quotemstr
I like how it's not fu*king template-based.
jordanb
Fucking template based?
cvandusen
He might be busy with something else. He responded pretty quickly to the first bug I submitted for nxhtml, but I sent two last week or the week before, and haven't heard anything.
jordanb
You mean how the language is the template? That wokred awesomely for php.
quotemstr
jordanb: Smarty, Cheetah, Mako, Genshi, and their ilk.
jordanb
And all the ASP websites of corse ("IE6 is required to view this website")
quotemstr
jordanb: The Right Way to construct web applications is by structuring them pretty much like you'd structure desktop applications, in terms of widgets and events, and let the framework figure out how that maps to particular HTTP responses.
jordanb
Um.
Firstly.
quotemstr
jordanb: That many ASP.NET developers seem to be idiots doesn't change the fact that the ASP.NET creators got the damn model right for once.
SimonAdameit
Hi!
jordanb
GUI apps are templated up in XML these days.
Secondly.
JordiGH
sh*t
I just wiped the server.
While trying to back it up.
jordanb
The Web stack is *way* too complicated and legacy for that to work.
quotemstr
jordanb: Sure, but people don't design GUI applications in terms of responses to particular kinds of paint messages. That's insanity.
JordiGH
(Action) panics.
jordanb
You don't have to maintain compatability with several different renderers for instance.
quotemstr
jordanb: It *does* work though.
SimonAdameit
how can I access the functionality of the menu bar of a major mode without using the menu bar?
it does not seem to be available with M-x
quotemstr
jordanb: And there's no reason you can't use some kind of templating system at a lower level --- but the application shouldn't be designed in terms of particular HTML constructs.
jordanb
Thirdly, that's not how any development process works, on the web. Because practically every one involves non-technical designers and semi-technical frontend people.
quotemstr
jordanb: So let designers design and have the tech people implement the design.
jordanb
quotemstr: Um, no modern framework is designed in terms of particular html constructs, that's the point of the templating engine!
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