logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / June / 11 / 1
aidalgol
,wikipedia
fsbot
From memory, WikiPedia is [0] at http://www.etrumeus.com/ferment/WikiPedia
[1] at http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/community/WikiPedia,
[2] http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/WikipediaMode,
[3] The Free Encyclopedia at http://www.wikipedia.org/
aidalgol
,wiki
fsbot
hmm, wiki is [0] a way of creating a web of documents, with a very easy way to create hyperlinks - using simple markup
[1] ... or just by using _(free links)/[[free links]]/["free links"]/etc.,
[2] Optionally, a publically editable website, such as the EmacsWiki., ..[Type ,more]
jordanb
The Minuteman Missle?
AimHere
The target systems for the UAVs that fire hellfire missiles into Afghan weddings is written entirely in brainfu*k.
aidalgol
,c++
fsbot
c++ is [0] http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/CPlusPlusMode
[1] see http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/tour-de-babel
jlf
as we learned from the cold war, in soviet russia enemy triumphs over you
         

aidalgol
[2] evil
jordanb
I believe the Minuteman doesn't have much software.
aidalgol
,scheme
fsbot
Scheme -- at http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Scheme
aidalgol
,ogg
fsbot
I think ogg is http://playogg.org/
aidalgol
,mathematics
fsbot
PolyHierarchyMathematics is at http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/community/PolyHierarchyMathematics
e1f
turbofail: found it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_Execution_and_Combat_Targeting_System
jordanb
At any rate what software it has is probably written in assembly.
aidalgol
,global thermonuclear war
fsbot
global -- the GNU GLOBAL source code tag system at http://www.gnu.org/software/global/
sshirowork
Is there a good reason why my shell buffers sometimes start echoing the input on a new line when I RET instead of just executing it?
e1f
looks very retro
just had to find the right words to tell google
jordanb
I think it's easy to argue that it *really* doesn't matter if nuclear missles work or not.
o long as everyone is pretty sure they'll work.
e1f
(Action) has a feeling that the lack of detailed information is deliberate
aidalgol
Are Kensington locks supposed to look as if they're about to fall out?
Mine always does.
But if I give it a tug it feels that it's in snugly.
e1f
they do use an rca tv http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SAS_Container.png
"The Minuteman II had an improved second stage, a dramatically improved guidance system (CEP was only one-fifth that of Minuteman I), and was equipped with micro-electronic circuitry, rather than discrete electronic components. This was the first missile to make use of microelectronics which, along with the new very high precision guidance system, led to reliability problems that plagued its initial introduction."
(Action) now has a feeling that the AF got around "reliability problems" by having more missles in case they missed
jordanb
The Minuteman project was one of the most important for the creation of the semiconductor industry.
The Minuteman and the Apollo lander.
fledermaus
just how precise do you need to be with a nuke?
         

turbofail
if you're hitting an enemy missile silo you have to be fairly precise
fledermaus
what's the point of hitting an empty silo?
jordanb
Close the silo gap, of course!
fledermaus
once your ICBMs are in the air, there's will be too in short order.
theirs
turbofail
yeah
but that's the only time when precision is important
fledermaus
the internet is corroding my grammar
jordanb
The bizzare thing about nuclear strategy is that it's all so philosophical.
turbofail
doesn't mean it makes a lot of sense
fledermaus
heh
turbofail
(the precision i mean)
fledermaus
"Missile, please return to the bomb bay"
mstr
it's game theory, not philosophy
jordanb
Fun fact: Britian's nukes are protected by a kindly old man in a funny hat with a bicycle lock.
fledermaus
tsk.
powr-toc
is CEDET in Emacs 23?
TeXnomancy
jordanb: more like this, I think: http://wondermark.com/576/
mstr
powr-toc: in 23.2
powr-toc
cool
xxJordiGH
Hey, the Google background thing made it into Slashdot.
jordanb
cvandusen
I guess they didn't pick up on my search: "holy mother of fu*k, how do I turn off google's background image?"
yonkeltron
cvandusen: interesting
bpalmer
cvandusen: it's gone now, by the way.
cvandusen
hooray for small miracles
yonkeltron
it's still there fore me
oh
there it goes
nice
cvandusen
I don't know yet. I'm still using Lycos
yonkeltron
i want to find a nice picture of a plate of khomous to put as my background
cvandusen: cool.
mfisher
I liked the claim that it was a "full-screen Google Doodle"
jlf
cvandusen: you should try altavista
legumbre
hotbot!
cvandusen
jlf: I can't even pronounce that!
legumbre: There ya go!
legumbre
cvandusen: powered by Lycos
yonkeltron
(Action) is powered by emacs, ruby and jquery
honestly
legumbre
(Action) has no empowerment
xxJordiGH
Gaaah websites that make you register to download.
killkillkill
jlf
(Action) pins a medal on xxJordiGH, sends him down the hall, says, "you're our boy."
legumbre
bugmenot.com
xxJordiGH
There used to be a time when cypherpunks workedd.
wtf
Workblocked.
"Illegal or unethical".
Eat ssh tunnel, workblocker!
yonkeltron
love it
ssh tunnels are the best
xxJordiGH
Gaaaaah
Site blocked from bugmenot
jlf
xxJordiGH: do you have the remote sshd listening on 443?
xxJordiGH
jlf: No, 22. Sysadmin knows about it. I try to keep the traffic low so he won't notice it.
legumbre
(Action) runs openvpn on 443
jlf
more clueful network admins may notice outbound traffic to port 22
,openvpn
fsbot
jlf: I give up. You need a lesson in creative writing...
xxJordiGH
Also, I've tried to befriend sysadmin.
jlf
,flame fsbot
fsbot
fsbot: You're so stupid you honour cancel messages.,
jlf
,g openvpn
fsbot
[google] http://openvpn.net/download.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenVPN
cvandusen
what was that again about botsnacks?
jlf
cvandusen: it's tough love
xxJordiGH
godfu*kingdammit
Fine, you win, collabnet.
I'll dance your registration dance.
jlf
(Action) just uses openssh's socks proxy
legumbre
jlf: socks proxy is great too! I use openvpn so all my computers are on the same network no matter where they are located.
New LLVM Debugger Subproject Already Faster Than GDB <-- the thought of "man, this debugger is slow" has never crossed my mind
jlf
hmm, that does sound interesting.
turbofail
let's extend the gdb in emacs lisp
quotemstr
Alea iacta est
yonkeltron
pardon?
quotemstr
legumbre: The debugger has been slow for symbol lookups for me.
JordiGH
I'm scared of how aggressively Apple is fighting the GPL.
quotemstr
legumbre: But I don't see how LLVM would help with that.
powr-toc
is Emacs 23.2 available for Ubuntu 10.04 yet?
JordiGH
The LLV? projects are fueled by pure GPL hatred.
quotemstr
legumbre: OTOH, a brand-new implementation is often faster than a mature codebase just because it's new and hasn't accumulated as much cruft.
jlf
that's more of an ubuntu question than an emacs question
yonkeltron
JordiGH: oh?
i've heard great things about llvm
for all parties involved
JordiGH
yonkeltron: Yeah, the BSDs are also thrilled with the prospect of replacing their last holdout of GPL code.
e1f
"Microsoft is an incredibly successful empire built on the premise of market dominance with low-quality goods."
JordiGH
yonkeltron: Yeah, LLVM looks nice, don't get me wrong, but everyone sells it like "we can finally replace gcc"! And why would they want to replace gcc?
yonkeltron
could you build emacs so it'd run on llvm and have JIT goodness?
JordiGH
Am I confusing LLVM with clang?
I believe I am.
Alright, I'll stfu.
yonkeltron
JordiGH: it's all good in the hood
but i'm not always clear on what llvm consists of
i mean, i understand it's a VM
quotemstr
Apple is behind LLVM and Clang.
Always keep that in mind.
yonkeltron
quotemstr: of course
but is clang a general-purpose compiler?
or is it just for compiling C to run on top of LLVM
and is LLVM akin to the JVM?
quotemstr
yonkeltron: You misunderstand how LLVM works.
yonkeltron
clearly
please help me
?
JordiGH
I've never understood with BSDs are so pissed off when their software is forcibly opened up by being combined with GPLed work but why they're so happy when it gets locked up into some Apple kernel.
quotemstr
yonkeltron: LLVM is equivalent to the back-end portion of gcc.
e1f
wikipedia explains
JordiGH
If you wanted to write non-free software from the beginning, why didn't you do just that?
quotemstr
yonkeltron: It takes what amounts to portable assembly and translates that to, say, x86 opcodes, or IL instructions, or even C code.
yonkeltron: The front-ends are responsible for generating that LLVM assembly; clang is one such front end.
e1f
quotemstr: apple was also behind gcc
turbofail
llvm bytecode, to be more specific
JordiGH
e1f: Don't they basically keep their own tree?
turbofail
pedantosaurus strikes again!
JordiGH
e1f: Public, but they pulled a Webkit on gcc too, didn't they?
yonkeltron
ok, so an llvm compiler doesn't have to emit llvm bytecode
quotemstr
turbofail: Do you hand the llvm backend actual bytecodes or just a textual representation of them?
Sketch
JordiGH: probably because they were the only ones who cared about ObjC
yonkeltron
clang can turn it into whatever, right?
quotemstr
turbofail: Is there an llvm equivalent of as(1)?
JordiGH
Sketch: But I thought their patches went beyond that... am I wrong?
turbofail
there probably is
e1f
apple hired the inventor of llvm, it was his phd thesis iirc
yonkeltron
interesting
i really don't like apple
quotemstr
What's innovative about llvm, exactly?
turbofail
i just happened to be looking up the llvm bytecode out of curiosity
quotemstr
Compilers have been using IRs for years.
e1f
daniel something?
Sketch
JordiGH: probably not
quotemstr
SBCL's Python uses an intermediate representation; gcc has several.
(Well, CMUCL's back in the day.)
yonkeltron
quotemstr: back in the day
turbofail
as far as i know the "innovative" part is the JIT
e1f
JordiGH: i don't know what pulling a webkit means, but they were well withing the webkit license
quotemstr
e1f: He means embrace and extend.
Remember that phrase?
JordiGH
e1f: Develop internally for a year, don't release any code, then release everything in a huge useless bundle in such a way to effectively circumvent copyleft.
e1f: KHTML is still smarting from having had a Webkit pulled on them.
quotemstr
Has KHTML integrated the Webkit changes?
e1f
does the license forbid that?
quotemstr
Or have they just switched to Webkit?
yonkeltron
khtml is prob gone
quotemstr
e1f: How could it?
JordiGH
I think it tried to integrate a few, but it was a huge flamewar.
yonkeltron
i think kde 4.5 has webkit in konq, i think
quotemstr
,khtml
fsbot
I heard mkhtml.el is at http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?mkhtml.el
JordiGH
e1f: What's legal isn't what's moral.
quotemstr
,khtml is an old fork of Webkit. :)
fsbot
created.
yonkeltron
hardy
e1f
doesn't the nokia browser use webkit also
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