logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / May / 15 / 1
leo2007
tromey: If I am the maintainer, I will make 23.2 the last version supporting DOS.
which is already overdue.
I think they should do it in 22.
drewr
bpalmer: good catch, thank you
bpalmer
have him try now.
drewr
score
cluck
emacs should have something like debian has for usage statistics
drewr
bpalmer: thanks
mwilliams_
drewr: thanks dude :) my heart sank when I didn't auto join and saw the +b, haha
bpalmer: Yes, thank you!
metaperl_
just compiling emacs with ./configure --with-x-toolkit=gtk is all I needed :)
leo2007
once a proper packaging system is in place, some of the junk packages should be recycled.
         

bpalmer
mwilliams_: sure thing. Sorry for the inconvenience.
leo2007
any idea whether gs.el is functional?
mwilliams_
bpalmer: No worries
cluck
that way the maintainers could know who's using what, when and where (if the user agreed first, that is)
leo2007
cluck: that could be built into the packaging system whatever that is.
cluck
mwilliams_: ams dude, ya can't take a hint man, no one here digs ya, ya know...
;)
leo2007
all the new features should be on for a period of time for testing.
sadly most new additions in 23.2 are half-baked. I am tired of reporting bugs.
cluck
leo2007: no need to mess with packaging
leo2007
cluck: can the system debian used usable by emacs just like the bug tracker.
In future I need to give each bug that I found a score from 0-10 and only report those that have 10.
cluck
leo2007: i don't think pop con would be all that useful, in any case even if it were i'm betting an elisp snippet could do much better with less code and in a platform independent way
leo2007
cluck: how debian collect stats? could you give me a link?
madpickle
bpalmer: put a ban on *!ams@* and ams!*@*
bpalmer: that'll narrow it down so mwilliams won't get banned.
tromey
I probably should have put popularity into elpa
cluck
leo2007: popcon is pretty much a cronjob that mails stuff about your install to a specific debian related address, that data is churned and statistics are provided regularly
bpalmer
tromey: just remember that popular people's votes should count more.
tromey
maybe the server keeps logs
cluck
tromey: that's what next versions are for
tromey: but do it EXPLICITLY (ie, it will only send info _if_ the user agrees to it)
nothing is more irritating than spyware
jlf
let's be vigilant about dossiers being compiled about our .el addictions
tromey
I was thinking more like, (anonymously) aggregating download info from the server logs
bpalmer
anonymity is surprisingly hard to guarantee.
         

cluck
platform, distro, binary or hand compiled, gui or cli, what's on and off, all easy to gather in a few lines, all useful data
e1f
""The Quantum Thief" is the best first SF novel I've read in many years."
bpalmer
sounds familiar.
e1f
that was stross
but it's not out yet!
madpickle
e1f: ever read anything by Neal Stephenson?
ggole
How can it be Stross' first novel, he's published plenty?
e1f
snowcrash and cryptonomicon
that was a stross quote
cluck
e1f: come on, spoil it, who took the strings?
e1f: you know you want to, really hard! :)
bpalmer
cluck: the thief did it.
e1f
the novel hasn't been released yet
cluck
oh and btw TITANIC SUNK!
cvandusen
e1f: ah! you gave it away
cluck
there, i spoiled it
:D
jlindsay
Dude, I haven't seen the movie yet, thanks a lot
cvandusen
Speaking of Stephenson and movies, I guess The Diamond Age got lost somewhere.
madpickle
stephenson's awesome.
i've read diamond age and snowcrash and i'm reading Anathem right now.
cvandusen
I'm contemplating reading Anathem on vacation in a few weeks.
madpickle
hmm
it's very rich in philosophy and other hard science fields
but very rewarding
turbofail
cryptonomicon and the baroque cycle books are pretty good too
madpickle
the book comes with its own glossary - just to give you a heads-up.
cvandusen
madpickle: cool
madpickle
turbofail: they're on The List :D
cvandusen
The first book of the Baroque Cycle is tough to get through
jlf
cryptonomicon?
cvandusen
Quicksilver
technomancy
srsly
madpickle
The Diamond Age was a tough read for me.
jlf
yeah i couldn't get through that, much as i wanted to
madpickle
i enjoyed its theme and overall storyline, but I felt that it took a while to get into and that it advanced fairly slowly.
jlf
_true names_ was enjoyable
cvandusen
Quicksilver is so detail-oriented in terms of the time, but then I felt like I could understand it better in the subsequent books. So, I guess it was worth it.
madpickle
snow crash was awesome. i absolutely loved that book.
great pacing; and vivid, interesting characters and story.
cluck
jlindsay: have you seen "snakes on a plain"?
technomancy
jlf: loved that one
cvandusen
pretty prophetic, true names
jlindsay
Yes, there were snakes on the plane. The title is very good I must say.
technomancy
neuromancer is unbeatable though
madpickle
The Cyberiad by Stanislaw Lem was another great read.
jlf
holy crap TN was written in '81?!
cluck
:)
jlf
(Action) waits for the nurses to wheel him into the day room
technomancy
you can keep coming back to neuromancer over and over again and enjoy new aspects of it every time
until it's half-memorized
cvandusen
technomancy: true dat
madpickle
technomancy: aye. there are a couple of books i feel that way about: hitchhiker's is also one of them
JordiGH
Can you segfault Java?
cvandusen
One that doesn't get much mention, but was also prophetic is The Shockwave Rider.
mstr
JordiGH: you can NullPointerException it. is that good enough? :)
cvandusen
That book deals with computer viruses & worms and was written in '75.
JordiGH
mstr: No, man, I want UB.
Friend says he's managed to crash the JVM.
technomancy
JordiGH: sure, I've done it
couple times with jruby, couple with clojure
cluck
technomancy: and then you watch stuff like Johnny Mnemonic and get scarred for life :)
JordiGH
technomancy: How do you debug that?
Quis debuges ipso debugators?
technomancy
JordiGH: you don't. it's not reproducible.
JordiGH
I mean, how do you debug the jvm?
technomancy
you mail your stacktrace to the openjdk team
*core dump
cluck
what's with hollywood and their habit of ruining good plots? :|
turbofail
what'd they do to johnny mnemonic?
cvandusen
Dear Sirs, Here's the dump you requested. Warmest Regards,
JordiGH
turbofail: It was ok except THEY FUCKING TOOK OUT MOLLY MILLIONS.
cvandusen
cluck: They can't come up with any of their own, so they kill the good ones.
JordiGH
turbofail: Johnny isn't the protagonist of that story, Molly is, and they took her out.
turbofail
ah
never saw the movie version
didn't even know there was one, actually
tromey
it is in the genre of "sci-fi movie where ice-t is the best actor"
see also tank girl
technomancy
JordiGH: I really am not looking forward to hearing "It's such a matrix rip-off" when kids see a neuromancer movie.
JordiGH
turbofail: It's with Mr Whoa Face.
turbofail: It's actually not terrible, but no Molly Millions really ruined it.
turbofail
yeah, i can see that
JordiGH
technomancy: Haha.
turbofail
molly is definitely one of the best characters from "the sprawl"
JordiGH
turbofail: Yeah, they did capture most of the cyberpunk feel. They changed the plot slightly to add a subplot about a worldwide epidemic, but that's cool too.
The random floozie they got to replace Molly is not cool, though.
(Not that Molly wasn't a floozie, but she was an unrandom floozie with a purpose.)
Dammit, Gibson, make a good movie already. You still have time. :-(
jlf
cvandusen: you said dump huh huh huh
Sketch
the fact that it's supposed to be made by the guy who did Cube is a good sign
cluck
tromey: tank girl was unusually faithful to the original afair
tromey: it's just the source material wasn't all that tbw
JordiGH
Tank Girl is about poopie and boobie jokes.
Sketch: Hey, I like Cube. First one, anyways.
They get too many lols in the later ones.
cluck
technomancy: well, since "neo" was "johnny mnemonic" i don't think that will happen, they'll just blame the bad on "molly 2.0"
if i make myself understood
turbofail
wait is there a serious effort towards making a neuromancer movie?
technomancy
turbofail: yeah, it's on and off every few years
Sketch
JordiGH: me too, that's why i think it's a good thing
jlf
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1037220/
cluck
that's another hollywood M.O., ripping and mixing great stories to get crap outcomes
and because of that we just know it will happen
Sketch
turbofail: http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/filmblog/2010/may/14/william-gibson-neuromancer-vincenzo-natali
tromey
I guess authors can't resist the $$$
or maybe they think they'll get lucky
and not have their book turned into a crappy movie
turbofail
hm
jlf
aiui, no country was very faithful to mccarthy's novel .. so it does happen
turbofail
well, blade runner was a pretty good movie, although it significantly altered the book's plot... so the outcome isn't always crap
JordiGH
What I don't get is, they know we like the story, so why do they change the story?
With Planet of the Apes, fine, there were production issues to take into consideration.
cvandusen
"we" are not the target audience
turbofail
because they assume that people who haven't read it are too dumb to like the original story
they might even be right
cvandusen
My daughter actually preferred the original story of Cinderella. The step sisters mangling their feet to fit in the slipper was gross enough to win her over.
turbofail
heh
cluck
turbofail: dumb people only care about the sex and the action scenes and those would be present in both the changed and the original plots
turbofail
true
but dumb people also like to see the male character doing the action and saving the incompetent female
hence what apparently happened to johnny mnemonic
jlf
let's be a focus group!
turbofail
i would say that if they think the original plot won't sell as well then they should just get a smaller budget
i'd like to see a small indie team have a go at neuromancer
jlf
'Ill create a GUI interface using Visual Basic&see if I can track an IP address.? Wtf, rewrite it.'
turbofail
lol
if they're going to make up bullsh*t computer stuff they should at least go all out
cvandusen
but, usually when they do, it fails.
cluck
turbofail: that's a lie, when well done (or smartly done) female leads work very well
leo2007
Sketch: that looks great. Any released films like that?
cluck
yay tomb raider!
(Action) ducks
turbofail
lol
well anyway that was probably their rationale for taking molly out of johnny mnemonic
who knows what this guy will do with neuromancer
puff
turbofail: I remember reading about it, I think it had to do with the Molly character being involved in a different film deal.
turbofail
ah
lame
puff
Typical.
There's a reason why Alan Moore says "Just hand me the check and don't tell me anything more about the film."
And doesn't see it, doesn't want to hear about it, pretty much pretends it doesn't exist.
If you're curious about why hollywood screws up movies, I recommend googling up the original story of whathappened to The Puppet Masters.
Also, watch _Bowfinger_ :-).
Did ya hear the one about the young hollywood actress who was so stupid, she slept with the writer to get ahead?
cluck
shouldn't the writer being the one getting head?
(Action) ducks
s/being/be/
puff
And fwiw, my favorite Gibson novel is _Count Zero_, but I'm not sure that would make the best film.
cvandusen
They could make the whole trilogy
puff
A friend is currently filming an unauthorized, zero-budget, indie film of _The Winter Market_.
In my garage :-).
Actually, he used my garage (which is ridiculously large - 60' x 20' with an 11' ceilnig) for a few scenes set in the artist character's studio.
turbofail
hm
puff
(Action) really needs to dig up a copy of Burning Chrome and reread The Winter Market.
For that matter, I should dig up all of my gibson books and reread them.
cvandusen
Given the hoopla made over the da vinci code, I'm surprised Foucault's Pendulum didn't get made into a movie.
puff
Just reread Spook Country. Looking forard to Zero History.
Yeah, the da vinci code... my brother took a crack at it because so many people were pushing it.
cvandusen
(Action) just read Virtual Light for the first time and wasn't really impressed.
puff
Basically it's what I call Twinklie Conspiracy Theory.
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