logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / May / 12 / 1
jlf
3 nroff entries?
akahige1
nroff-mode, yes
jlf
what are the regexps?
fsbot
hmm, Regexps is (info "(emacs)Regexps")
ashawley
jlf: Doesn't yours?
jlf
,botsmack
fsbot
(Action) evades!
akahige1
.m[mes], .man, .[1-9]
ashawley
jlf, akahige1: I've tried opening a .gz in a .tgz. Failed.
Opened in fundamental mode, not nroff mode.
         

akahige1
ashawley: yeah... as I stated before, I've never found a version where it works as you'd expect.
My guess is something is just missing from Tar mode.
I may see how Dired handles it and then look over Tar mode elisp.
ashawley
akahige1: I agree.
jlf
i have e.g. ("\\.man\\'" . nroff-mode)
akahige1
Just figured someone might have run into this before :) Not exactly a rare operation.
jlf: yes, mine are like that too... I just paraphrased the regrexps
ashawley
akahige1: a compressed file in a tar file?
akahige1
yes, gz in a .tar, .tar.gz, .tgz
ashawley
most tar's are compressed, so it seems like wasted cycles.
akahige1
i.e. .gz from tar mode.
jlf
if you're chasing possibly wrong regexps you should not paraphase them
paraphrase even
akahige1
jlf: understood... though I'm confident in my ability to know whether these will match :)
jlf
no offense, but i'm not. we get all types here.
akahige1
also understood
jlf
maybe ,,dv magic-mode-alist ?
fsbot
Alist of buffer beginnings vs. corresponding major mode functions.
Each element looks like (REGEXP . FUNCTION) or (MATCH-FUNCTION . FUNCTION).
After visiting a file, if REGEXP matches the text at the beginning of the
buffer, or calling MATCH-FUNCTION returns non-nil, `normal-mode' will ..[Type ,more]
akahige1
already checked that
it's nil
jlf
magic-fallback-mode-alist ?
akahige1
It's certainly in auto-coding-alist
ashawley
can just use M-x apropos-value nroff-mode to grep for it.
akahige1
(no-conversion)
naquad
hi
         

jlf
ashawley: nice, didn't know about that :)
naquad
where do i get latest nxhtml mode?
akahige1
and no, it's not in magic-fallback
this is a pretty stock emacs :)
madpickle
but not entirely?
might be worth trying it with emacs -q
cvandusen
naquad: launchpad.net
akahige1
Pretty sure I've done that but I'll double check.
ashawley
might be worth people trying to open a .gz in a .tar
madpickle
could `auto-compression-mode' be interfering?
ashawley
madpickle: i think akahige1 wants it to. :)
naquad
cvandusen: nXhtml does not have any download files. =\
madpickle
ashawley: hm
akahige1
same with emacs -q
Borkdude
Can I replace a line with what is currently on my clipboard (instead of C-y and then C-k to remove the other line)?
akahige1
madpickle: I kind of expect auto-compression-mode to be handling this for me :)
cvandusen
naquad: If you want a zip/tarball/whatever ourcomments.org is the place to go. If you like living even more dangerously than normal, launchpad.net is the place.
nedko
hi, i saw a friend to use vim and tags in cool way and i'd like to do same with emacs. the ability to search for C identifier definition and all references
jlf
akahige1: what's the extension of your tar file?
madpickle
Borkdude: `delete-selection-mode' might be what you are after.
akahige1
jlf: it's tar.gz
jlf
out of curiousity, have you tried .tgz ?
naquad
cvandusen: i'm moving my emacs files into git repo, so i don't want to download zips, i want to get git repo url and push it as submodule. is there any git repo of nxhtml?
ashawley
jlf: Why? It works for you?
Borkdude
madpickle, tnx!
akahige1
jlf: same
tar, tar.gz, tgz
cvandusen
naquad: ah, I see what you're saying. You can get the source as described at https://code.launchpad.net/nxhtml
akahige1
all open fine in tar mode
jlf
ashawley: haven't tried yet
akahige1
once there, cannot open embedded .gz
naquad
cvandusen: crap :( they've got only bazaar
cvandusen: and which branch should i use? trunk?
cvandusen
naquad: That's what I've been using (although, I've sworn off it for a while)
ashawley
akahige1: Hope this proves to you that nobody's tried it because there are very few files that have .gz in a .gz
akahige1: Who distributes .gz inside of a .gz, or is it private?
akahige1
it's not .gz inside of .gz
it's a gzip'ed file inside of a tarball
ocmsRzr
ashawley: I've seen that done before
akahige1
which is incredibly _common_
cvandusen
*sworn off nxhtml, not just trunk
ashawley
common where?
ocmsRzr
wait, I guess, what akahige1 explained instead
jlf
akahige1: looks like the mode is selected by a call to normal-mode inside tar-extract.. you can probably see what n-m is missing
ocmsRzr
ashawley: sometimes its done to ensure data integrity in important files (like firmware updates, drivers, etc)
naquad
cvandusen: why so? is there something better than nxhtml?
akahige1
ashawley: on any system you might use tar to archive files... and where some of those files might be gzip'ed?
tommylommy2
Hi, I'm running emacs in text mode, and I can't work out how to make a window wrap as text gets to the side of the window... Any help?
akahige1
go tarball your man pages
quotemstr
ocmsRzr: You can just use checksums too.
akahige1
you'll end up with a tarball full of gzip'ed files
ashawley
(Action) tries to remember last time he tarballed his man pages.
ocmsRzr
quotemstr: yea, but who really wants to go through the hassle of generating and checking a checksum?
cvandusen
naquad: No, but my frustration level has risen enough that I'm just using raw php-mode & js-mode until I too can roll my own.
akahige1
ashawley: you are missing the point
quotemstr
ocmsRzr: Any decent firmware-loader should do that already.
ashawley
akahige1: No I get it.
cvandusen
(those combined with Yasnippet, Abbrev & Company)
ocmsRzr
quotemstr: I'm not arguing the point, just saying thats a use for double zipping something
naquad
cvandusen: not very inspiring info :( crap, atm i've got impression that i'll have to use some huge&bloated netbeans/eclipse/etc to edit php+js+html code
ashawley
akahige1: But if I had gzipped logs and tarballed them, I'm probably dealing with so much data that Emacs probably isn't the right tool for the job.
quotemstr
ocmsRzr: Right.
ocmsRzr: And it's really an argument for integrating the compressor and packager. If tar had a built-in compression system, it could recognize already-compressed files and encode them in a special way.
jlf
(Action) .oO("Emacs probably isn't the right tool for the job."?????)
akahige1
ashawley: It actually performs incredibly well for what I am doing.. it's just misbehaving.
jlf
wut
cvandusen
naquad: If you're just using nxhtml, it might be fine, but I like other things and there has been too much flakiness. From what little research I've done so far, I don't that it's possible to do "sophisticated" web development in anything other than a bloated IDE.
quotemstr
cvandusen: I used to do it all the time.
cvandusen: That's why I _wrote_ js-mode.
cvandusen: The key is separate out programs written in different languages into different files.
cvandusen
I too have trod the twisty path through cedet land, and I can see why it is as complicated as it is. Compared to the javadocs I perused for Netbeans.
quotemstr: I agree, but at where I work, breaking the existing code out into separate files is so low on the priority list, it might not as well be there.
naquad
cvandusen: so you're actually working with php+js+.... in netbeans? 0o
quotemstr
cvandusen: Try using narrowed indirect buffers.
ashawley
akahige1: If I had to guess, it's probably not Tar-mode's fault, but probably auto-compression-mode's file-centric nature.
mqt
sweet, M-x emacs-uptime
ashawley
although, if tar-mode created temporary files rather than buffers probably would be solved as well.
cvandusen
naquad: No. I just downloaded it to see how it worked. The fact that it took several minutes to parse the project, and still paused noticeably when navigating through code was enough to convince me that it's not worth it.
Plus, it has such foreign keybindings as to be unusable (for me).
quotemstr: how do I do that?
quotemstr
cvandusen: make-indirect-buffer
naquad
cvandusen: java. java is slooowww... when someone will write something like netbeans with scriptable plugins he'll become billionaire
quotemstr
cvandusen: Then, in the indirect buffer, narrow to the region you want to edit and switch to your desired major-mode.
cvandusen
quotemstr: I take it that this is independent of nxhtml?
quotemstr
naquad: You can't write plugins with something like clojure or groovy?
cvandusen: Yes.
cvandusen: It's a core, if little-known Emacs feature.
naquad
quotemstr: what will groovy/clojure change? same platform. same sloowww
cvandusen
(Action) wonders how many more nuggets are buried in the creamy filling
technomancy
naquad: the only thing that's slow about Java is the JVM boot time and some crappy frameworks
jlf
cvandusen: that is a very disturbing mixed metaphor
cvandusen
jlf: mission accomplished! :)
quotemstr
technomancy is right. The JVM is freaky fu*king fast these days.
technomancy
JVM bytecode generally runs several times faster than Emacs bytecode (modulo boot time)
naquad
technomancy: and huge memory consumption. first versions of java were very fast, but today any java-written product is extremely slow.
technomancy
actually early versions of Java were pretty slow
bremner
unlike, say firefox, which is super-fast
cvandusen
naquad: yeah, but is that the java, or the code?
technomancy
but if it's slow these days it's just because it's sh*t code
quotemstr
naquad: The culture surrounding Java development encourages bloated, over-engineered solutions.
cvandusen
,bremner++
fsbot
Noted, cvandusen. One karma-point for bremner!
quotemstr
The JVM can't do anything about that.
But the JVM *itself* is very fast.
I see no good reason why it shouldn't be as easy to write extensions to Netbeans or Eclipse in Clojure as it is to write Emacs extensions in elisp.
jlf
phoenix^Wfirefox is mozilla's faster cousin!
bremner
the quick and the dead
technomancy
quotemstr: the reason would be that if you know Clojure you would hopefully not have much incentive to edit Java code
but it's certainly possible =)
quotemstr
Also, Firefox *is* fu*king fast if you look at its Javascript execution times. You realize it's JIT-compiled these days, right?
All the "slow" bits are in C++.
bremner
laffa while you can microsoft boy :)
naquad
quotemstr: open 100 tabs in FF and 100 tabs in some google chrome (will take a bit more memory) and see the result
quotemstr
naquad: C++ design.
naquad
quotemstr: chrome will be faster
quotemstr
For _fu*k's_ sake, can we finally realize that mixing 1) preemptive concurrency, and 2) shared memory is a bad thing?
Choose one or the other.
ggole
quotemstr: no, no, you just add locks! It's easy!
Surely deadlocks won't be a problem. And it's not as if code ever changes, so you can make sure that everything is right and then sleep well at night.
quotemstr
(Action) shoots ggole.
:-)
Software transactional memory looks interesting. Too bad nobody seems able to efficiently implement it.
tommylommy2
thanks for the help, from whoever gave it... I picked up on it eventually
quotemstr
Ugh.
Cameron runs Britain now.
technomancy
quotemstr: STM is only really feasible with persistent data structures
but since those are the only kind of data structures worth using anyway...
=)
quotemstr
technomancy: Why wouldn't it be equally useful for conventional data structures?
technomancy: Imagine a pair of regular integers.
leo2007
Cameron new UK PM.
technomancy
quotemstr: hang on; brb
leo2007
quotemstr: yeah. UK got a future.
quotemstr
leo2007: He has a smoking wife.
leo2007
(Action) agrees.
they seem to have a nearly perfect family.
quotemstr
If I were British, I'd have preferred Clegg, but either way, Labour is dead. Hurray!
leo2007
sadly, Brown's farewell speech is the best of his I have seen.
locklace
it started to smell a long time ago
quotemstr
McCain had a really great concession speech after the last election.
leo2007
quotemstr: where r u from?
quotemstr
leo2007: Buffalo, NY.
shabble
is it as delicious as it sounds?
leo2007
quotemstr: Clegg is a bit inexperienced so also untainted by politics.
In politics, substance and presentation are both important they appeal to different groups of people.
quotemstr
leo2007: See Nixon versus Kennedy in the 60s.
leo2007
quotemstr: nixon looks stupid in that debate.
weak, actually.
quotemstr
Sure, and that's why he lost. Appearance.
leo2007
I think Brown's heart isn't bad. He is not good at communicating messages.
quotemstr
I disagree; Labour as a whole has been co-opted by free market fundamentalists and free-trade zealots.
(Also, next to economic issues, everything else is secondary.)
squiddo_
quotemstr: very clintonesque of you - "It's the economy, stupid"
leo2007
Well, you can imagine how Blaire would defend this. I suppose it would be better than Brown.
quotemstr
squiddo_: He was right.
squiddo_: We can argue about social issues once we're at full employment and the gini index descends to a sane level.
"Yes! Praise be! Unemployment is at 50% and Republicans are our feudal lords, but by Jesus himself, abortion is banned. I got what I voted for!"
jlf
why do you hate freedom?
squiddo_
quotemstr: no debate, there. Although I would debate that Kennedy won solely on looks. Nixon's win against McGovern showed he had some appeal to voters.
And in that great American tradition that anybody can be rahabilitated, he ended life as an elder statesman <sigh>
leo2007
anyone who hacks emacs c code?
quotemstr
leo2007: I have hacked on it.
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