logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / April / 22 / 1
ysph
Cowmoo: try calling desktop-save, and then open desktop-base-file-name to make sure all of the stuff you want is there
jlf
are any of these desktop-saving libraries aware of erc enough that they would restore connections to servers and rejoin channels during a desktop restoration?
Cowmoo
sh*te, I would not want that
shabble
jlf: use an irc bouncer?
kensanata
jlf: no
ysph
jlf: you could probably set up desktop-globals-to-save and then when you start up erc it would auto join based on the channel alists
i've never tried it
Cowmoo
ysph: just tried it, all the info appears to be in there, thanks!
jlf
i was looking for something in the almost-no-effort vein
but thanks :)
shank
C-3 C-x ] takes me to the end of buffer; instead I want to move 3 pages down. any clues?
         

ysph
shank: that's what C-x ] does, try C-v instead
shabble
shank: C-x ] operates on page boundaries (^P iirc)
jlf
nope, formfeeds
shabble
oh, ^L
jlf
shabble: C-v's argument is in units of lines, so you could wrap it with a function to multiply the supplied argument by window-height or somesuch
(wrap scroll-up / scroll-down that is)
shabble
(Action) points at shank
ysph
ah, i just assumed C-x ] was more or less equivalent to M->, but i was wrong
jlf
oops
shabble
tab completion doooooooom
moljac024
how can you set up code completion for emacs?
jordanb
rudybot: quote
rudybot
I blame Kraftwerk.
jordanb
rudybot: quote
rudybot
THE FIBONACCI SEQUENCE IS THE DA VINCI CODE!!1
shabble
moljac024: google for 'CEDET'
jlf
,...
rudybot
Woof.
jordanb
This channel sucks without fsbot.
moljac024
oh and
what's better - to add packages with the distribution package manager or manually into ~/.emacs.d ?
sz0`
what the... my erc is doubling each message.
         

jlf
moljac024: also useful is ,,df M-/
dammit
cvandusen
time for a fsbot impersonation contest
shabble
haha
ashawley
M-/ runs the command dabbrev-expand
jlf
,yow
moljac024
and how do you keep packages up to date
ashawley
I joined scientology at a garage sale!!
cvandusen
my wife just opened the DOOR!
shabble
ashawley: you win. Now you have to keep it up until he returns!
ashawley
(Action) is afraid
moljac024
and what if I want to use a newer version of something that's included by default in emacs distribution (for example org-mode)
ashawley
moljac024: Delete the copy in ~/.emacs.d
cvandusen
man, what a suck job that would be, to sit in a channel 24/7 responding to people's requests...
jordanb
rudybot: quote
rudybot
I blame marshmallows.
jlf
moljac024: just ensure that your newer version is in a directory that appears earlier in load-path
moljac024
how can i do that in .emacs?
ashawley
cvandusen: That explains why ams is on the verge of going postal.
cvandusen
ashawley: lol
moljac024
doesn't the stuff that gets added to load-path from there go to the end?
i'm sorry for all the question, i'm an emacs newb
cvandusen
after typing that, my first thought was, "wait, that's basically parenthood"
moljac024
using it for 2 days
ashawley
The newb-killers aren't here, so you chose a good time.
moljac024
lol
jlf
moljac024: (let (foo) (add-to-list 'foo 1) (add-to-list 'foo 2) foo) -> (2 1)
moljac024
jlf: that means absolutely nothing to me :)
jlf
moljac024: i added 2 to the list later and it appears earlier in the list
ashawley
moljac024: HINT: Think load-path
jlf
so any directories you add to load-path that way will appear earlier
moljac024
but load-path doesn't get constructed in the home folder configuration
shank
so my takeaway is for moving n lines down a wrapper fn is needed
jlf
shank: no, for moving n *screens* down
bob31
I cannot decide which Emacs MUA to setup: mew, gnus, wanderlust, emh? any comparison? wanderlust seems to support imap(tls),ssl(tls) out of the box without externals so that might be a pro.
shank
jlf: right. was mistaken
ashawley
bob31: don't forget rmail and vm!
bob31
rmai never heard but vm yeah
I do use msmtp for other mailing tasks so I can use that although it might be faster with a persistent SMTP channel open
cluck
ashawley: actually some of us are, but newbs provide for a meal best served cold thus the idling ]:)
ashawley
Emacs mail clients: "You don't pick your mail client. It picks you."
damd
i have two rcirc functions that i want to override the default rcirc functions with the same name with... how do i do that?
the problem being that i must "defun" them only after rcirc has fully loaded
ashawley
damd: eval-after-load ?
bob31
oh and of course also
notmuch.el
cluck
,df defadvice
maybe?
damd
no, these aren't suited for advicing
cluck
ARGHHHHH
shabble
can you advice a function before it exists?
bob31
but that's for heave mailboxes. I tend to use mailbox as a todo list and not archive messages
rgr
why would you want a constsnt smtp channel open? msmtp is fast enough - I use it from gnus.
cluck
rudybot: later tell fsbot he sucks balls
rudybot
minion: memo for fsbot: cluck told me to tell you: he sucks balls
cluck
hahahahah
bob31
rgr: it's not a requirement, jus assuming it's faster to not open and authenticate and connect on each send
moljac024
is there an emacs mail client that can safely store passwords? e.g. not in cleartext
damd
eval-after-load seems to work just fine, thanks
cluck
machines 1 - 0 humanity
:)
rgr
bob31: the time saved compared to hitting send and composing the email is insignificant.
bob31
moljac024: it's enough if it stores it in-memory during run, persistent storage not good but I think most do allow configuring passwords
moljac024
no, you see i don't want to type it every time
bob31
moljac024: just each time you start emacs and send the first time. I would use that or like now enter each time
damd
it pisses me off that i have to learn bzr to contribute to emacs...
bob31
I tend to not store passwords if I can
benny
moljac024: gnus can do that, it uses .netrc and .authinfo
bob31
don't want to start a debate but bzr is primarily chosen based on license politics and feel good
benny
I don't feel good about that choice
technoma`
bob31: not much to debate there
nobody likes it
zala
i have a problem with emacs and xmodmap :S i change my function keys in my keyboard using xmodmap... ok, all works but.. when i open emacs dnt work this keys :S
this keys only works with emacs -nw, but dnt work in Xemacs...
moljac024
benny: but the password is stored in plaintext
bob31
so who made the decision then?
moljac024
in a file
bob31
moljac024: that's why I don't store passwords or if I do then only with one that support a keystore (kwallet, gnome foobar, osx keychain, etc....)
damd
actually, eval-after-load didn't seem to work...
benny
moljac024: you can add .gpg to it and will work in the latest stuff
cluck
damd: you might need to learn EMACS to contribute to gnu emacs, yay vc (yay even more botched plans!)
benny
(info "(auth)Top")
damd
cluck: que?
just because i don't know that much about emacs or elisp doesn't mean i can try my best to make it better... two patches have been accepted so far and the one i've completed just now will most likely be accepted.
jlf
damd: good on you
cluck
damd: vc is an emacs mode that does version control for you (in theory) you install emacs and the vcs program and when you visit a repo vc dtrt for you
s/vcs/YOUR_VCS/g
damd
cluck: i'm just worried about the whole trunk/ vs. quickfixes/ thing. maybe that doesn't really pose an issue here now that i think about it.
since i don't have commit access anyways, i might as well just use trunk/ and generate a patch. cool. thanks cluck!
cluck
damd: you're welcome (but beware, in the real world vc may get smart on you and not dtrt, just keep an eye on it)
damd
i wonder how long it will take for bzr to mature into a usable vcs
or if it even has the potential
bremner
damd: hg seems to be headed towards usability via supporting a git backend :)
damd
bremner: i don't know about that git backend, but we use hg at work and it works just fine for all of our projects
isomer
i use hg all the time, and it's frankly excellent
cluck
i can see someone implementing a datastore for bazaar with zodb B)
bremner
couchdb
damd
so whose choice was it *really* to go for bzr? i get a hunch that it was entirely rms's fault.
isomer
dunno. i pull from the git mirror, myself
damd
so do i, but i'm currently pulling from bzr to make a usable patch
isomer
ah
cluck
damd: what i don't get is ALL THE RANTING ABOUT IT
damd
cluck: but it's SO SLOW :|
if it weren't for the sluggishness i wouldn't mind to be honest, i'm no dvcs master by any means
cluck
hell, it's a dvcs, use whatever the hell you want in your machine! it's not like git-bzr and equivalent tools don't exist
damd
but why should we have to? it's _obviously_ a bad choice except for the politics
bremner
cluck: by that logic we should use svn
technoma`
damd: you don't have to use bzr unless you're a committer
the git mirror works great
for read-only uses
isomer
technoma`: he's trying to make a patch
bremner
technoma`: "committer" = "old think"
technoma`
what's wrong with git format-patch?
bremner: bzr = old think
bremner
oh, I though it was "new, gone terribly wrong" think :)
damd
FunctorSalad: darcs or bzr, quick!
FunctorSalad
damd: /me only know darcs
*knows, even
typing is hard
cluck
damd: the hell it's slow, slow was using cvs with a 2800 baud modem to send your .5kb patch, these days all you have to do is leave the thing running in the background and it will upload your stuff the next time you pass by an open wifi hotspot
FunctorSalad
(out of these two)
cluck
oh, and, you know.. get offa my lawn.. yadda yadda =)
damd
cluck: that's like saying new york city is small, because just look at tokyo!
cluck
damd: jokes aside, yes it was likely a political more than anything, but even bzr is better than cvs/svn and as i said half jokingly before it's not like you can't use other stuff :)
damd
branching trunk, 300 MB and counting...
tromey
bzr was a dumb choice. but if you want to work on GNU you eventually will have to cope with RMS' random authoritarianism
FunctorSalad
is there any way to have multiline elisp in a buffer which holds a language which only has single-line comments?
cluck
decision -^
technoma`
damd: seriously, what's wrong with git format-patch?
damd
tromey: but he doesn't really have a say anymore when it comes to emacs, does he?
tromey
sure he does
damd
technoma`: i didn't know about that. there's lots of things i don't know about.
FunctorSalad
(oh well, doesn't matter with lisp except for readability)
tromey
he isn't officially the maintainer but he can still weigh in
jordanb
What we need is someone with an even bigger ego than his to fork it.
And then go start a nightclub.
And let the fork die.
FunctorSalad
which of the two are you arguing is slower here? :o
tromey
haha, yeah
hopefully this guile thing will inspire a fork
jlf
(Action) 's impression is that rms:yidong/stefan::fidel:raúl
damd
let's rewrite emacs
FunctorSalad
ugh. operator precedence?
'/' over ':' over '::' I suppose
damd
what notation is that?
what ever happened to > = <?
FunctorSalad
metaphor notation
jlf
a:b::c:d === a is to b as c is to d
damd
so rms is the puppet master then
FunctorSalad
(maybe my linguistics is a bit off here)
cluck
tromey: true rms lacks pragmatism but lets face it that's been a good feature over the time, even for the gnu project
jlf
is that notation not well known anymore?
tromey
it varies
FunctorSalad
analogy?
jlf
kids these days
tromey
RMS is really great at a lot of things
damd
jlf: i blame scandinavia
jlf
tromey: measuring power, for example
tromey
but a decision like bzr, or GNU labelling, is something that IMO should not be in the hands of a single individual
picking bzr did not impact software freedom in any important way
technoma`
damd: all that to say, just because the core devs use bzr doesn't mean anyone else has to
damd
technoma`: that's true
technoma`
if they accept patches in the mail you should be able to stick with git or whatever works for you
damd
i just feel sorry for those that want to branch emacs with a dial-up connections
-s
technoma`
right, the only thing that affects are the official instructions... which some poor sap is bound to take at face value.
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