logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / March / 9 / 1
technomancy
figuring out what's going on in Ruby without having a running subprocess is really hard
unless you just want class lookup, etc
I mean, lookup that only works on Class/Module instances
disturb
yeah
but you can do that wthout even using cedet right ?
technomancy
with tags, yeah
I meant it would be nice to be able to interrogate a running subprocess about it so you didn't have to maintain your table by hand
disturb
yeah i know what you mean
technomancy
that's the model slime uses; it works really well
except it's a lot easier to determine what a given identifier means there than it is with ruby
disturb
don't know if that could be hacked on el4r, I've never used it, I'm not sure how usable it is
technomancy
it would probably be built on inf-ruby
johnsu01
jlf: yo
zu22
hi! how do i set the background of my gtk emacs to be black?
i tried this but it did not work: (set-face-background 'mode-line "black")
         

jabot_
zu22: try starting emacs with the -rv option
zu22
jabot_: cool, this also worked: (set-background-color "black")
jabot_
zu22: just creates a problem if you have a black font color
black on black isnt that readable :D
zu22
for coding i like black background in emacs with green font, how about everyone else? just curious :)
jabot_
heh
http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki?ColorTheme
zu22
jabot_: heh, i thought at first you were a bot! lol
oh thx
jabot_
nope
fro0g_
so what can one expect if emacs gets an FFI?
bpalmer
an app store.
fro0g_
great, will RMS decide what apps can be sold then?
bpalmer
Of course. You will only be allowed to choose things that don't impair your freedom.
fro0g_
too restrictive for me, I'm switching to vim
bpalmer
I'm sorry, fro0g_ , rms can't allow you to do that.
fro0g_
unless apple comes up with some uber cool text editor
bpalmer
comes up with? TextEdit!
fro0g_
yea, but that still requires a keyboard, I want to use pinch gestures to enter text.
zu22
FFI?
fsbot
I think FFI is short for "foreign function interface", a mechanism for talking to libraries written in other languages. Most commonly, a Lisp system (e.g. SBCL) is using a C FFI to talk to a C library (e.g. libncurses). Other host and foreign languages are possible. .. + other entries
zu22
ah
kodein
I, for one, think an FFI can be good.
almost as good as warm toast
         

technomancy
kodein: good for you or good for the GNU project?
bpalmer
technomancy: you mean the GNU/Linux project.
technomancy
sorry
bpalmer
(Action) whistles innocently.
kodein
technomancy: for the project, mainly, but hopefully I'll benefit in some ways from it too
technomancy
kodein: I mean it's been banned from Emacs right now for vague concerns that it would be bad for The Greater Good of GNU.
even though obviously it would be a great thing for users.
kodein
I like the guile idea too, sorta.
fro0g_
give an example of something cool that could be done with emacs if it had an FFI
bpalmer
embedded doom.
technomancy
fro0g_: we could use libobby directly instead of wasting months of effort porting it to elisp
kensanata
bpalmer: Yay!! :)
kodein
I could write my init files in prolog?
kensanata
We could use libpurple directly.
fro0g_
technomancy: thank you
ersatzmaus
hmm?
kensanata
ersatzmaus: Without having to write a sexp-based interface...
bpalmer
ersatzmaus: on the possibilities an FFI would open.
fledermaus
kensanata: you couldn't, because it needs a mainloop
kensanata
Oh.,
bpalmer
fledermaus: so, you're saying, an FFI, and threads...
fledermaus
so it's a little trickier than that
threads wouldn't help you.
libpurple isn't thread safe
bpalmer
an FFI, threads, and a reckless disregard for correct behaviour...
fledermaus
at least, sou couldn't use it trivially.
You might be able to weld the libpurple library to emacs ui loop
but I don't know how good a match it is.
raph_ael
nice idea, the ffi
fledermaus
easier (and more stable) to have it out of process.
I'd like ffi
but I don't think libpurple ends up being a case where you'd want it
technomancy
bpalmer: it's the American Way!
fledermaus
(Action) has walked this path before at least twice
raph_ael
technomancy: what is libobby ?
technomancy
raph_ael: collaborative editing library
raph_ael
though i read first libbooby
technomancy
,g gobby
fsbot
[google] http://gobby.0x539.de/trac/wiki/Download
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobby
raph_ael
great
technomancy
hehe
jabot_
btw, does anybody know about the progress on making emacs multithreaded?
bpalmer
how many roads must a maus walk down, before he's considered a fluttering mouse?
raph_ael
has the ffi really been banned ?
kensanata
fsbot: nothread
fsbot
From memory, NoThreading is [0] at http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NoThreading
[1] see http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/2003-12-04,
[2] See also async-eval,
[3] See also LaterDo
bpalmer
raph_ael: RMS pre-emptively vetoed it for "emacs".
jabot_
iirc there was a consensus to use cooperative multithreading
kodein
raph_ael: liboobs is something different
kensanata
(I wonder if there's any change regarding threading and the resources known to fsbot)
bpalmer
raph_ael: it's present in sxemacs, xemacs 21.5, and there's a variant of it for xemacs 21.4 and 21.5
fro0g_
bpalmer: he says it's ok now
raph_ael
kodein: maybe not what i thought
bpalmer: rms still decides a lot for emacs ?
jlf
our chief weapon is FFI, threads, and a reckless disregard for correct behaviour...
jabot_
hm
bpalmer
raph_ael: rather astounding, no?
jabot_
cooperative threading with explicit yield
-> no concurrency problems for legacy code
fro0g_
bpalmer: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/121729

oops
kodein
personally I'd love to see an emacs with MPI, so I could take advantage of all that high end computer hardware I have access to
raph_ael
bpalmer: i thought he was not much in the project has for hurd
fledermaus
damn imposters.
fro0g_
jabot_: there's still activity, which is a good sign http://gitorious.org/emacs-mt
jabot_
git
urgh
disturb
technomancy: regarding tags, do you have any experience with (c|e|g]tags and ruby ?
can't figure out which one will provide the best support
bpalmer
jabot_: odd, most of the time people are pro-git :)
jabot_
nah
i prefer mercurial
git is too complicated
bpalmer
For all that git and mercurial are supposed to be big rivals, I have a hard time finding people who favor hg to git... ah, well now.
jabot_
its easier to use
plain and simple
it may be less powerful
Beaver
www.search2.net (new search engine)
jabot_
but i prefer being able to do what i want without studying documenation
bpalmer
Beaver: and it uses some emacs variant, hmm?
Right.
mnemonikk
it's easier to set up a mercurial server behind apache, and the repo doesn't need maintenance.
jabot_
to be fair, i think that problem has been solved with git
the periodic - repacking one
mnemonikk
jabot_: recently? I remember a friend bi**hing about that problem not too long ago.
jabot_
hm
not too sure. he may have used an old version
or not activated some obscure configuration setting that automagically fixes the problem
mnemonikk
jabot_: both is possible.
jabot_
the git guys do some heavy development
bremner
/me snickers about complaints about baroque config on #emacs
jabot_
bremner: at least emacs documentation is readable
git documentation not so much
also git by design encourages messing with the history
kodein
he who controls the past controls the future
rgr
rebasing sensibly is not "messing with history", its editing the books to remove points of no interest,
bpalmer
he who controls the spice controls the universe
kodein
the spice must indeed flow
kensanata
Hehe, I just saw that movie two days ago.
bpalmer
which version?
fledermaus
rebasing is very useful. It means I can check in all the piecework I do into my branch, review, get the branch working, then edit it down into a logical stream of patches by rebasing before having it reviewed for merge to the main branch
kensanata
bpalmer: The 131 min cinema version.
kodein
Lynch sorta slaughtered that novel
fledermaus
yeah.
jlf
heh, it's kind of funny to message nix noobs with write/wall
kensanata
bpalmer: I also have a 176 min "TV" version on a bonus DVD. Do you think that one's worth it? I had fond memories of the movie but didn't enjoy watching it too much, unfortunately.
bpalmer
odd way of saying "made an awesome movie out of"
fledermaus
he mangled it.
jabot_
the point is
taking changes from one tree and planting them somewhere else
kodein
botany?
jabot_
does not imply the need to delete them from their origin
and you can simply just push the new, cleaned up branch
no need to remove commits
bpalmer
fledermaus: but how often do you really do that sort of rebasing? You could just commit them in logical working chunks in the first place...
jabot_
bpalmer: i would think depending on the working style...
i commit every half an hour or so
fledermaus
bpalmer: I do it every time I submit a branch for review.
jabot_
but these commits are not meant for public eyes :)
kodein
I tend to commit when it is logical to do so
fledermaus
it's part of our standard workflow
and it saved me when my HD blew up on tuesday at 4am the day of a deadline
because I was free to commit & push to the work repo without worrying about having to keep a clean branch for merge.
jabot_
fledermaus: you do not have private branches as "playgrounds"?
fledermaus
jabot_: what would be the point of that? this is something I'm working towards for work. It's a set task, not random experimentation
sure, you can duplicate the effect of rebasing in other vcs by doing extra work with branches.
but why bother?
jabot_
hmm... isnt the work the same?
fledermaus
no
rgr
jabot_: invariabl you dont even keep the development branch after rebasing and committing so for public eyes or not, keeping all the temp checkins serve no real purpose. checkins are frequently time nased for safet rather thn some meaningful strategic point.
jabot_
yes
jlf
rgr: did you borrow ams' keyboard?
jabot_
still, collapsing several changesets will not save space
rgr
heh, my thinkpad kbd is hosed. new one in the post.
jabot_
only if you constantly change the same stuff
rgr
jabot_: no, but it saves noise.
jabot_
... well thats true
fledermaus
zzz
bremner
jabot_: a more interesting question for me, since I know how to use git (more or less), is what features distinguish hg other than ease of use?
jabot_
readable documentation (not a feature per se)
and...
queues
bremner
topgit?
jabot_
i dont know topgit
bremner
roughly the same feature
afaiui
jabot_
this one: http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/git/2008/8/3/2795494
?
bremner
yes
jabot_
hm
i wouldnt know of any feature git doesnt have
then again, i didnt use git that much
and its some time ago
e1f
i also saw the director's cut of dune just last week and found that too much was cut from it. i read that he shot 4h of footage
bremner
jabot_: ok, just curious.
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