logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / March / 8 / 1
isomer
(Action) sips happily
offby1
Wittekerke Witbier
isomer
,t8 dk en Wittekerke Witbier
fsbot
BEEEP: Wrong type argument: characterp, "dk -> English: no matching translation services found.
"
isomer
offby1: i give up
,t8 de en Wittekerke Witbier
fsbot
Wittekerke Witbier
itistoday
anyone from japan here?
isomer
<_<
>_>
jonaskoelker
nihonjin imasen ... apparently
         

james_bond
gaijin desu
itistoday
or if you know any japanese immigrant(s) who would be willing to answer a few quesitons
bremner
on the internet, no one knows you're a dog.
jonaskoelker
in a series of tubes, on the other hand...
shabble
...except on chatroulette
bremner
you want to be the lead dog
brianskywalker
hallo, i've been looking at different text-editors lately, and i'd like to know what are the pros and cons of Emacs?
bremner
,sales-pitch
fsbot
try: bettersalespitch salespitch
bremner
,salespitch
fsbot
We aren't gonna lie. Emacs sucks. Some of us tolerate it, but we can't tell you if YOU'LL be able to. Try it and make up your own mind.
jonaskoelker
,bettersalespitch
fsbot
jonaskoelker: From memory, bettersalespitch is let's go out to an expensed, 4-martini lunch and then sign the contracts.
james_bond
it's basically about how manly you are
if you're manly, you're tough enough for Emacs
if not, better stick with something more girly! ;)
shabble
girls don't use emacs?
jonaskoelker
I heard some do
bremner
only manly girls
james_bond
exactly!
jonaskoelker
with hair on the chest, yeah?
james_bond
seriously, though
it depends on your taste and interests
if you can tolerate anything and are not looking for
         

brianskywalker
ok
james_bond
the ability to improve or
customize yhour experience, then emacs probably isnt' the idea
if you want the ability (but not the requirement) to be a power user
and basically an evironment that you can LIVE in
for everything, if you want, Emacs is the way to go
The Emacs key bindings are available everywhere
Bash, Sun boot prom, even Eclipse has a mode that
supports them
so it's a good skill to use.
technomancy
brianskywalker: Emacs is a lisp VM with a standard library that happens to include a lot of editing functionality and a large community extending it.
shabble
james_bond: /some/ emacs bindings are available.
james_bond
And with Emacs 23, it's UTF-8 friendly
brianskywalker
thanks. this help a bit (i think)
shabble
it's a bit like sayign PCRE is the same as having perl regex everywhere :)
james_bond
shabble: yes, of course
M-x doctor isn't widely available
brianskywalker: the standard thing I say to people is
try it for a week (exclusively
)
and see where you're at
the first few days may take some time to get used to
but by the end of hte week you'll know
it has a built-in tutorial to get you started
technomancy
if you can find someone you know to help you out with it, that will help immensely
nothing can replace a knowledgeable human
brianskywalker
thanks
james_bond
(Action) is a happy Emacs user since 1979
technomancy
james_bond: since the Roger Moore era?
james_bond
Yep!
technomancy
he's my favourite
james_bond
Twenex + Teco + ^R mode baby
jonaskoelker
esc x doctor => roflpwnz ;)
james_bond
M-x psychoanalyze-pinhead
[sic - spelling may not be right]
brianskywalker: one other thing: some of us in this chat room
technomancy
1979 was the year Moonraker came out. awesome.
james_bond
are chatting from within Emacs
using a built-in library called "erc"
so it's *that* powerful
brianskywalker
ok, so i wouldn't need many other things?
jonaskoelker
correct---emacs can also do email, calculators, spread sheets, ...
brianskywalker
wow, ok!
technomancy
basically the only thing it can't do (well) is render web pages
brianskywalker
oh, my systems pretty constrained (and i'm on dialup)
bout how much space should it take up?
(roughly)
jonaskoelker
the ubuntu 23.1.1 package is just shy of 7 megabytes
brianskywalker
not bad
jonaskoelker
but I'm sure that's excluding a bunch of functionality
brianskywalker
ahh
so that's not including dependencies?
jonaskoelker
it's a bit like legos: building a pirate ship takes ~1 bucket. Building a fleet takes n ships, where n is dependent on what you need the fleet to do...
or something like that :)
brianskywalker
oh, haha
jonaskoelker
I'm not really sure what those 7 megs include, but I guess it's something that's working
even if it doesn't give you everything under the sun
technomancy
that would probably be the console (non-X) version
jonaskoelker
yeah
of course
why would you ever need X? ;-)
brianskywalker
hmm...
bremner
note that the ubuntu package probably depends on quite a few megs of libraries
jonaskoelker
(j/k)
brianskywalker
i brought up aptitude and checked how much it should take (i'm on debian)
looks like...
bremner
50
?
100?
brianskywalker
77.8 megs after unpacking
jonaskoelker
a bunch more than I'd thought
ISTR the djgpp guy doing a DOS port of emacs; emacs+gcc+gdb+[...] was dl'able in ~30-35 megs... ?
bremner
depends what is there. The default version depends on gtk, what about emac23-nox?
brianskywalker
that says 68.8MB
for nox
jonaskoelker
hm
brianskywalker
ok.
perhaps there's an emacs-tiny?
wow! emacs chess!
wgreenhouse
hehehe
iirc, it can even use xboard-like graphical pieces if you want
brianskywalker
interesting
emacs22 is a bit smaller
(but only by a few megs)
honestly i'd like to try it out, but on my connection it's definitely going to take a while to download
wgreenhouse
hmm
brianskywalker
though it should only be 23.4MG archived
still will take FOREVER
arg
wgreenhouse
(Action) wonders if RMS still offers his original distribution method of getting paid a few bux to send a tape of Emacs in the mail :-D
brianskywalker
lolo
(without the last o)
james_bond
brianskywalker: how did you get debian in the first? Didn't that take a while to dl?
a LONG while?
brianskywalker
i used to live somewhare else and had a good connection
james_bond
wgreenhouse: probably not a tape anymore, but I get gnu/fsf could hook you up with a CD
brianskywalker: ah. Still -- get it started now
brianskywalker
haha
technomancy
brianskywalker: where do you live, if you don't mind?
brianskywalker
arkansas
in the ozarks
they do have dsl, but it's expensive and the worst dsl ever
james_bond
yow!
technomancy
gotta love how the US is no longer in the top 20 nations ranked by broadband penetration.
james_bond
technomancy: yah, but....think about the areal density the US has vs other tighly packed countries
[or, lack thereof]
brianskywalker
i'm a bit hesitant to download, though. perhaps i'll get around and go to the library at some point and use their internet
technomancy
I'm sure it's a combination of that and telco incompetence.
brianskywalker
it's much better
wgreenhouse
technomancy: telco incompetence and perverse telco incentives
i.e. the incentive to stick with the lines they bribed local officials to install 20 years ago
rather than getting new permits for land use
james_bond
brianskywalker: Can't you just....you know.....
use the Force?
brianskywalker
what's the difference between emacs22 and 23?
shabble
1? :)
technomancy
brianskywalker: if you're going to sink a few hours into getting Emacs, you should go with 23.
brianskywalker
ahh ok.
james_bond
23 is WAY more advanced -- deals with unicode characters properly
technomancy
22 is about 3 years old
james_bond
does antialised fonts
wgreenhouse
^^ without making you want to die
james_bond
has lots of other goodness in it that I'm not even aware of
brianskywalker
hmm ok
james_bond
don't waste the time on 22
wgreenhouse
brianskywalker: the included packages situation on 22 is perhaps the most frustrating part
as many of those packages have developed a lot in 3 years
you'd want to replace them with upstream versions which means more downloading
brianskywalker
ok
23 it is then
james_bond
I don't recall if aptitude can restart downloads or not
in case of trouble with your connection, so maybe if you can find
a suitable rsync server to get the .deb file from?
and then just dpkg -i it locally?
brianskywalker
oh yeah it does if the connection apprubtly stops or a little kid pulls the plug on you computer
you just open up aptitude again and press g
james_bond
k
wgreenhouse
(Action) finds it possibly ironic and at least depressing that most of GNU's list of fully free distros consists of remasters of Ubuntu
jonaskoelker
how about ututo?
brianskywalker
i think ubuntu is a modified debian
jonaskoelker
you'd be right
wgreenhouse
jonaskoelker: ututo is the only exception that comes immediately to hand, hence why I said "most"
I was just investigating Trisquel
jonaskoelker
ah
wgreenhouse
and had to sigh at it being yet another *buntu
jonaskoelker
tried USE?
wgreenhouse
I haven't
jonaskoelker
good (I think)
technomancy
isn't that just SuSE without the S?
jonaskoelker
it's "Ubuntu, Satanic Edition"
now with a different default wallpaper
and otherwise a stock Ubuntu, I think ^_^
brianskywalker
emacsen-common is downloaded
wgreenhouse
jonaskoelker: wtf?
technomancy
so not much of a difference, then.
wgreenhouse
sounds like a more accurately named Hanna Montana Linux
brianskywalker
but it estimates 11 hours left for the reast of it
jonaskoelker
lol
brianskywalker
*rest
technomancy
brianskywalker: =(
brianskywalker
i think it's like 3k a second here
technomancy
well that gives you more time to anticipate how awesome Emacs is.
brianskywalker
oh i see
wgreenhouse
jonaskoelker: I am running Crunchbang at the moment (sigh another *buntu) but will probably branch out again soon as that project is in the throes of a constitutional crisis
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