logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / March / 21 / 1
dim
or maybe graphviz to do the layout for you
Eraldo
at our university we need to make concept maps and we are free to chose any method
but I have not found any cli possibility until now
dim
bpalmer: http://cedet.sourceforge.net/cogre.shtml ?
Eraldo
or not yet
bpalmer
dim: aye
dim
hehe, looks nice too
cedet though
Eraldo
so the options are: pic macros | graphviz | cogre ?
bpalmer
such a reputation cedet has
dim
it seems to be hard to get a version of it that works
so I didn't even try :)
(well I don't need it)
         

HandyGandy
banisterfiend: If women follow you around when your finished, thedn you are doing something wrong.
Oh sorry, got caught ion a scroll.
Eraldo
dim: ever done anything with graphviz?
dim
yes, but forgot about it
Eraldo
would be nice if the style of the link could be influenced aswell
like bidirectional arrow etc
dim
it was a create.sql -> .dot
pferor
hello!
Eraldo
dim: that is what I was looking for http://web.mac.com/nissplus/IslandOfApples/Graphviz%20Concept%20Map.html
dim
hehe nice
bozhidar
Enough coding for today
Good night, folks
snogglethorpe
gee my graphviz-generated graphs never look that nice...
quotemstr
Let's create a homeopathic debugger.
JimmyRcom
quotemstr: Add a 1/1000 chance it crashes on purpose, removes money from your bank then praises itself?
quotemstr
I was thinking of something that just inserted NOPs in your program with low probability, but sure.
fledermaus
1/1000 is a bit high
jordanb__
I've got a startup idea.
We'll sell $20 bills.
For $19.95
You may think that's a bad idea cause you lose five cents on every transaction.
But we'll make it up in volume.
justinlilly
jordanb__: do you forsee any advertising possibilities in this endeavor?
jordanb__
If the margins don't work on that, I figure we could probably sell them for as much as $19.99, at which point the per-transaction loss will only be 1ยข!
justinlilly
perhaps "Brought to you by Rice-a-Roni, the San Francisco Treat"
quotemstr
Why am I not surprised?
Sean Hannity's "charity" has 95% overhead.
jordanb__
justinlilly: Yeah that's a good idea, the only problem is that the envelopes will be limited to only 144 characters of text.
         

justinlilly
jordanb__: that's fine. The slogan above is only 54, so we could have 2 of those messages on a single bill.
jordanb__
Bernie Madoff's programmers are on their way to the clink.
quotemstr
Because they were in on the dead.
s/dead/deal/
Wow... http://afghanistan.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/18/shaming-her-in-laws-costs-19-year-old-her-nose-ears/
jordanb__
To be honest I like the idea of programmers who write evil code being held accountable.
quotemstr
jordanb__: That's a dangerous precedent.
What if you don't know your code is being used for evil?
What about FOSS code employed for harm?
fledermaus
I don't think there's any doubt the madoff guys knew they were doing something wrong, though, is there?
quotemstr
Not in this case, but proving or disproving knowledge is hard.
I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt unless the evidence is particularly damning.
erikc
for terminal emacs, is there a way to choose the cursor type (say, underscore vs block)?
jordanb__
quotemstr: The criminal justice system is built arond the idea of proving guitl.
mansour
hello all, I know I can generate TAGS file using find -name "*.[chCH]" -print | etags -
jordanb__
I don't see how it'd be a 'dangerous precedent' for them to stand trial for knowingly participating in a fraud by writing the code that enables it.
mansour
and I can jump to a tag with M-. but everytime I want to visit a tag I got promoted for the TAG file
jordanb__
Holding programmers responsible for the code they write is an acknowlegement that programming is a profession and that programmers have a right and duty to adhere to professional ethics when asked to do a job.
bojohan
erikc: are you saying that emacs uses a different cursor than the terminal's normal one?
jordanb__
rudybot_: quote
rudybot_
Let's clear our private data.
Sketch
I'll clear your private data.
erikc
bojohan: with viper, it uses a bar in insert mode and block in other modes, but in terminal it's always a block (presumably cause terminal mode can't render a bar)
i wanna change it to underscore in term mode
bojohan
does the terminal have an underscore cursor?
jordanb__
Star trek's warp scale is so idiotic.
They should have made 16 the maximum.
Avoiding the problem with 'warp faster than ten' in the old series.
cluck
jordanb__: i don't, particularly because the guys that make the laws define what's "evil", take germany "oh noes netcat is for hax0rz!!! arrest, arrest!"
erikc
bojohan: n/m, talking out of my ass, the windows console does, but with unix terminals it's a term isssue, will figure it out
jordanb__
The Star Trek: Voyager episode "Threshold" concurred with this: the characters ruled that reaching the velocity of warp 10 was impossible in spite of this, they went on to achieve the velocity
fledermaus
cluck: they fell foul of _fraud_ law
quotemstr
Unenforceable laws should not be passed. The law against nmap (not netcat) is one such law.
fledermaus
not some coked up booze addled politiclones knee-jerk reaction to omg noes the internetzors!!1!
jordanb__
There's a difference between writing software that has substantial non-illegal uses that is subsequently used for illegal purposes and being comissioned to write software that will be used to break the law, and being fully aware of the intended purpose of the code.
quotemstr
jordanb__: As for the Voyager episode: rounding error. With enough digits, 9.999... will read as "10".
cluck
fledermaus: to legislate a crime you don't need to legislate a tool, or are you one of those people that think licenses should be issued to carry a hammer because someone somewhere might or will kill someone else using one?
fledermaus
cluck: I'm not arguing for stupid laws.
jordanb__
experiencing a peculiar side-effect; they underwent a [reversible] process of hyper-evolution culminating in their transformation into anthropomorphic newts.
fledermaus
I'm talking about the madoff hackers
jordanb__
That sounds like the stpuidest trek episode ever.
quotemstr
jordanb__: In that case, bunk.
jordanb__
Even stupider than the hippy episode of TOS.
quotemstr
fledermaus: What exactly did the Madoff hackers do that was illegal?
fledermaus
fraud?
quotemstr
jordanb__: That episode was gold compared to "The Omega Glory".
fledermaus
on a massive scale?
jordanb__
Even stupider than the TOS episode where we learn that all the information in the federation is stored on one remote asteroid.
quotemstr
fledermaus: They just wrote tools. Even if they were aware of the crime, they weren't committing it themselves. Sure, there's probably some penalty for being aware of a felony and not reporting it, but that's different.
fledermaus
conspiracy to commit fraud
jordanb__
Even stupider than the TNG episode where we learn that the Enterpise has kids on it.
fledermaus
accessory to fraud
before, during and after the fact
shabble
nmap is illegal?
jordanb__
Or the fifteen TNG episodes where Wesley Crusher saves the day.
cluck
fledermaus: you don't need to penalize _software_ to arrest thieves, even digital ones
jordanb__
quotemstr: The guy driving the getaway car in the bank heist is just driving a car.
quotemstr
alt.wesley.crusher.die.die.die
fledermaus
cluck: they didn't
"Two former employees accused of helping fraudulent Wall Street financier Bernard Madoff programme an old computer to generate false records have been indicted. "
quotemstr
jordanb__: Presumably the guy driving the car will share in the spoils, and was involved in the planning.
fledermaus
is anyone here _really_ going to defend that?
cluck
fledermaus: also, even bad people have the right to free speech (regardless of the likelihood of them abusing it)
quotemstr
jordanb__: If a bank robber gets away in a taxi, is the taxi driver liable?
fledermaus: No, not if they were conspiring.
jordanb__
quotemstr: Clearly it depends on if the taxi driver knows what he's doing or not.
fledermaus
cluck: I don't know what you're talking about, but it doesn't appear to be the same case at all
jordanb__
quotemstr: In this case, the programmers knew they were helping break the law.
rudybot_: quote
rudybot_
Let's make a sony rootkit.
jordanb__
Heh
^-- Perfect example of programmers blindly writing evil code
fledermaus
I doubt they did it blindly.
they knew they were doing wrong and they did it
shabble
Let's just follow orders!
jordanb__
Right that's what I mean.
fledermaus
shabble: works for irish archbishops
shabble: course, if my boss looked like this : http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47507000/jpg/_47507028_008979273-1.jpg I'd probably do what he told me.
quotemstr
At least you guys can't make fun of American clergy anymore.
http://totallylookslike.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/pope-benedict.jpg
cluck
fledermaus: i wasn't commenting on the case itself but the seemingly preprogrammed response legislators appear to have to these cases
fledermaus
I don't think this is one of those cases.
no knee-jerk legislation involved here afaict.
just straight-up fraud indictments.
quotemstr
There's an argument to be had for treating programmers more like engineers, code of ethics and all.
cluck
everyone should be bound by some ethics code but as doctors in medicine have proved time and again that solves little if the _person_ is not inclined so
quotemstr: -^
quotemstr
People are inclined to obey ethical codes when there are professional penalties for not doing so, as is the case for engineers.
erikc
there are definitely areas of software development where codes of ethics and professional accreditation
quotemstr
In the medical world, there's such an obscenely large amount of money flowing through the system that the reward of playing ball outweighs any risk.
erikc
but many businesses will rail against the increased cost of accredited engineers
quotemstr
If concrete companies hired hot woman to lobby engineers to use their products, we'd see a lot more collapsing bridges.
kmels
where does "call-process" look for binaries?
quotemstr
Fortunately, because manufacturers of physical components are not rich as Croesus, they can't afford that kind of manipulation.
erikc: Salaries across the board are too low as it is.
kmels: PATH, I imagine.
mocker
I'm having a problem w/ an elisp if statement, http://gist.github.com/338872
fledermaus
,dv exec-path
fsbot
*List of directories to search programs to run in subprocesses.
Each element is a string (directory name) or nil (try default directory).
You can customize this variable.
kmels
quotemstr: is PATH in a variable? it can't found a program.
cheers
mocker
If I set enable-theme to t it errors out on the require
quotemstr
mocker: "(progn (" instead of ((
fledermaus
progn... yeah
or just use when
quotemstr
mocker: Also, consider ,,df when
fsbot
when is a Lisp macro in `subr.el'.
(when COND BODY...)
If COND yields non-nil, do BODY, else return nil.
When COND yields non-nil, eval BODY forms sequentially and return
value of last one, or nil if there are none.
mocker
Thanks.
quotemstr
reddit and metafilter are a breath of fresh air compared to Slashdot.
erikc
quotemstr: i'm not sure if salaries are too low so much as companies don't want high paid engineers who also assume responsibility for business/product decisions
quotemstr
erikc: At least in the US, productivity has been rising for 30 years, but real wages have remained the same.
erikc
a lot of companies are just paying for translation from english to code
quotemstr
erikc: If it's really that menial, it can be automated.
fledermaus
zzz
quotemstr
High labor costs lead to technological progress.
ned
has anyone managed to get map some key-chord mode-specific bindings to just ido-mode ?
i want to map [ to 'ido-next-match but only when ido-mode
quotemstr
ned: Try doing it in ido-setup-hook.
ned
quotemstr: will take a look, much obliged
quotemstr: success! thank you sir.
quotemstr
You're welcome.
jordanb__
Demonstrators outside the U.S. Capitol, angry over the proposed health-care reform bill, shouted "nigger" Saturday at U.S. Rep. John Lewis, a Georgia congressman and civil rights icon who was nearly beaten to death during an Alabama march in the 1960s.
quotemstr
jordanb__: At least they're finally making their real objections public.
jordanb__
I wonder how many TEA party protesters are on medicare.
They all seem to be old white people.
quotemstr
Boomers.
"Keep the government out of my medicare!"
jordanb__
I think half of their problem is their furor over a 'colored man' running the country. It doesn't really matter what the issues are.
rudybot_: quote
rudybot_
Let's control our vertical AND our horizontal.
jordanb__
rudybot_: quote
rudybot_
Let's make a Jump to Conclusions mat.
FFighter
hi
how can I go back to the last point I was in eamcs?
emacs*
jordanb__
http://ia311326.us.archive.org/2/items/halocaust/halocaust_512kb.mp4?halocaust/halocaust_512kb.mp4 <-- WTF??
fsbot
I'm telling you, you don't want to know.
e1f
you mean after quitting and restarting emacs?
FFighter
after going to another point
a point in the buffer
e1f
c-x c-x
will switch mark and point
,bookmark
fsbot
hmm, BookMark is [0] (info "(emacs)Bookmarks")
[1] see also bmk-mgr to manage web bookmarks in elisp,
[2] at http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/BookMarks
FFighter
thanks
jordanb__
rudybot_: quote
rudybot_
I blame marmosets.
quotemstr
,desktop
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