logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / March / 2 / 9
bpalmer
re-search-forward for the win
dim
what I'm thinking too
if I knew where point is in the buffer...
well (save-excursion to the rescue
quotemstr
Pet peeve of the day: Wikipedia articles that link to what look like additional interesting articles, but that are actually just redirects back to the original page.
"Hrm, I've seen these pictures before. Wikimedia commons must be running low... no, this IS the same page."
yonkeltron
would someone who was alive then confirm that this is for real, please? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchup_as_a_vegetable
jordanb_
Yes
That was a huge deal.
I was very young, but my parents have talked about it.
yonkeltron
that's nuts.
jordanb_
What do you want them to do?!?! Raise Taxes!??!
They have aircraft carriers to pay for.
cvandusen
Frank Zappa made a big deal about it on his '88 tour
a couple of which were released on CD
There was also confinement loaf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutraloaf
yonkeltron
that's rediculous
         

quotemstr
yonkeltron: Unfortunately, Ronald Reagan wasn't made up to frighten children.
fledermaus
quotemstr: and there's palin yet to come... (scary, no?)
yonkeltron
yes. very scary.
cvandusen
The moral majority's kept boy
yonkeltron
i be she's a vim user, too
quotemstr
fledermaus: When Palin comes to power, I'm leaving the country.
yonkeltron
never have i needed more incentive to finally move to israel
or canada
or...anywhere, really
cvandusen
quotemstr: just the fact that it is mentioned that she could come to power is reason to consider moving
quotemstr
yonkeltron: The continuing beatification of Ronald Reagan by some on the right is highly disturbing.
yonkeltron
cvandusen: nutraloaf...omg.
quotemstr
After he assumed power, our gini coefficient shot through the roof.
yonkeltron: Wait - you're *American* and didn't know about Saint Ronnie?
ivan-kanis
Palin is some king of vegetable?
cvandusen
yonkeltron: FZ's comment at the time was "How long until confinement loaf makes its way into U.S. high schools?"
ivan-kanis
s/king/kind/
yonkeltron
ivan-kanis: no, king of the vegetables was right. but you meant s/king/queen
fledermaus
poor people who vote republican amuse me.
yonkeltron
Sarah Palin: QOV
fledermaus: indeed.
ivan-kanis
yonkeltron: freudian slip surely
fledermaus
in a I-hav-to-laugh-or-I-would-start-crying kind of way
yonkeltron
ivan-kanis: surely.
         

fledermaus
+e
yonkeltron
,ivan-kanis++
fsbot
Noted, yonkeltron. One brownie-point for ivan-kanis!
ivan-kanis
fledermaus: you live in England you don't have to put with Palin
quotemstr
Okay, we have Palin, but they have the BNP.
yonkeltron
he will if she gets elected
fledermaus
ivan-kanis: the US decides our foreign policy
cvandusen
an oldie but a goody: http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nations_poor_win_election_for
quotemstr
At least our right-wingers don't *openly* ape Nazis.
ivan-kanis
we have the FN in France, but they are pretty dead
fledermaus
and the two biggest parties gnerally try to follow US policy - they're both trying to kill off healthcare here.
quotemstr
Was that Le Pen's party?
ivan-kanis
fledermaus: ah fair enough >.<
quotemstr: yes
yonkeltron
she'll appoint anne coulter as her chief diplomat and the rest of the world will be on the "FUCK YOU" doctrine
ivan-kanis
quotemstr: still is, the ol' bastard refuses to die
fledermaus: isn't US policy to revive healthcare?
rgr
Did you read the onion article about her speech opening the sixth seal of armegeddon? Hilarious. http://www.theonion.com/content/news/latest_sarah_palin_speech_opens?utm_source=onion_rss_daily
fledermaus
ivan-kanis: ish. lots of poor and middle class people are dead set against it
on account of it being kawmyoonisum.
quotemstr
Tragically.
bpalmer
the health care bill in congress has faltering support. pretty much every major component of it when asked about separately has large majority support.
yonkeltron
it's sickening. people who literally, don't want others to have healthcare, because "they didn't earn my money"
bpalmer
which just goes to prove: democracy doesn't work.
kensanata
Uhm...
Maybe not in the US; but it seems to be working more or less here in Switzerland.
yonkeltron
do you have more than two parties?
kensanata
Sure.
ivan-kanis
well healthcare is tricky, it *does* cost money which in a strictly capitalist view you need to pay for it...
bpalmer
kensanata: nation-wide referenda on building architecture?
kensanata
bpalmer: Hehe. :)
Democracy!
ivan-kanis
kensanata: oh yeah, how about the law agains mosque towers?
kensanata
Mistakes are made. But that doesn't mean "it doesn't work"
yonkeltron
ivan-kanis: true, it does cost money. but when the people who make the budget and somehow make multi-million dollar pencil bills fit in the budget tell you that they can pay for it elsewhere, we should listen.
kensanata
ivan-kanis: It was an initiative, ie. an addition to the constitution, and we don't have constitutional courts, thus there is no law, yet.
bpalmer
pfft. When you look at how irrational humans are... neither capitalism nor democracy have a chance at working. Much less anything else.
kensanata
ivan-kanis: And when a law is proposed, there will be another opportunity to fight it with a referendum.
ivan-kanis
kensanata: that's a relief
fledermaus
anyway, the two biggest parties here want to bleed as much tax money away frm the health service into private hands as possible, under the guise of choice.
rgr
the whole point of a governkment mkaing it a policy is that rich people didnt get rich helping poor people. The cost of medicine in the US is kept artificially high on purpose.
kensanata
ivan-kanis: Also, there's the Strasbourg court of human rights once we have a law and a court case, so I'm not too concerned, yet.
ivan-kanis
yonkeltron: i'd think the money that the US spends on war would be better spend on healthcare, but hey that's my opinion...
yonkeltron
we should all get implants and go back to direct democracy. we'll have 20 minutes a day for "national voting time" when we'll all sit quietly and transmit our will on the issue of the day.
rgr
most people who argue against contributing for "poor people" inherited their cash anyway ....
fledermaus
then once they've starved the health service nearly to death, they'll claim it is ineffective and shut it down, with massive kickbacks all round from the privat companies to the ministers and civil servants involved
yonkeltron
of course.
cvandusen
fledermaus: exactly
bpalmer
yonkeltron: I can foresee the political ads people stealing ideas from the beer commercials.
kensanata
What I found laughable was that the US was trying to make their healthcare system more like the swiss, which is ... guess what! ... the second most expensive healthcare system on this planet.
Way to go. :)
yonkeltron
ivan-kanis: i agree with you in many ways. however, medicare is defrauded quite easily and if that could be stopped, then there'd be quite a bit of money floating around.
ivan-kanis
fledermaus: I didn't feel health care was very good in England, in France you still *pay* your doctor, you are reimbursed later, I think it makes a difference
bpalmer
kensanata: the best analysis I saw of that is that Switzerland and the US both are very federal, and both are very new health care systems. Most European countries got their basic systems in place before WW2, before the private insurers really got entrenched
ivan-kanis
kensanata: no way, you mean per person?
fledermaus
bpalmer: after wwii, shirley.
just after, I believe.
kensanata: 2nd most expensive is still an improvement from most expensive...
bpalmer
ok, fair enough. Switzerland's is, what, 1970s?
ivan-kanis
the socialist healthcare works with post WWII demographic : lots of young workers, people dying younger
andre-r
hello
ivan-kanis
now the demographic is turned around and our healthcare is losing money big time
fledermaus
ivan-kanis: point to consider: somebody paid for the care and feeding of that population bulge when those people were young and not earning money - so why is it suddenly impossible to pay for their care now?
bpalmer
at any rate, the argument is that simply nationalizing health care and firing all the overhead would be incredibly disruptive.
ivan-kanis
I guess we'll retire at 80, how depressing :(
kensanata
ivan-kanis: The demographic argument has been debunked by a paper I read in regards to pensions.
fledermaus
ivan-kanis: well, I guess I don't need to worry, we mostly die in our 60s in my family.
kensanata
fledermaus: Ugh.
ivan-kanis
fledermaus: what consolation ;)
fledermaus
the ones that don't crack up and go insane in their 50s, at any rate
ivan-kanis
fledermaus: good point, i haven't thought of that...
uwjweq
vc- how to compare with previous version?
ivan-kanis
fledermaus: i guest the post war boom helped a lot: no unemployment and money swishing around to rebuild
uwjweq: oh a question on topic
fledermaus
ivan-kanis: wasn't so much of a boom outside the US, I believe - europe had a lot of war debt to pay off
ivan-kanis
uwjweq: C-x v =
yonkeltron
congress gets good healthcare, veterans get good healthcare
fledermaus
so really we're _better_ off now than then, we just waste money that could be spent on social stuff on ridiculous wars instead.
ivan-kanis
(Action) nods
fledermaus
speaking of ridiculous expense, I really wish we hadn't won the olympics.
ivan-kanis
haha
fledermaus
damn you, france! you were supposed to _win_!
ivan-kanis
you deserve it, it should have been Paris :)
fledermaus
at least I don't work in london any more.
ivan-kanis
if it weren't for Blair hob knobbing the olympic committee I am sure we would have it
fledermaus
hob-nobbing
knobbing means something _entirely_ different.
ivan-kanis
i was thinkin of hob knobs
fledermaus
no k
ivan-kanis
the biscuit is spelt like that?
oh ok
uwjweq
ivan-kanis: I know about C-x v = . It is not what I need. I need to have a div between this revision and the previous.
yonkeltron
won the olympics?
how can someone win the olympics?
ivan-kanis
uwjweq: I don't think emacs does that, you need to use your version control system on CLI
Knob \Knob\, n. [A modification of knop. Cf. Nob.] 1. A hard protuberance; a hard swelling or rising; a bunch; a lump; as, a knob in the flesh, or on a bone.
oh dear
fledermaus
yonkeltron: [the right/opportunity/responsibility to stage] the olympics
ivan-kanis
a "hard swelling", good grief!
yonkeltron
oh
ok
uwjweq
ivan-kanis: I doubt there is anything emacs can not do.
yonkeltron
because if it comes to medal count, the US def won
37 medals
cvandusen
,df vc-diff
fsbot
vc-diff is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `vc.el'.
It is bound to C-x v =, <menu-bar> <tools> <vc> <vc-diff>.
(vc-diff HISTORIC &optional NOT-URGENT)
Display diffs between file revisions.
ivan-kanis
uwjweq: what's your VC backend CLI ?
fsbot
Normally this compares the currently selected fileset with their ..[Type ,more]
cvandusen
,more
fsbot
working revisions. With a prefix argument HISTORIC, it reads two revision
designators specifying which revisions to compare.
yonkeltron
but canada had 14 of them gold
fsbot
The optional argument NOT-URGENT non-nil means it is ok to say no to
saving the buffer.
ivan-kanis
i learn something about emacs every day...
well sadly not everyday
it'd be more fun to learn something everyday
cvandusen
ivan-kanis: if I learned something new every day, I wouldn't have time to practice the previously learned things.
ivan-kanis
fledermaus: european countries must have been in debt after WWII but it must have been euphoric times after the end of the war
dim
mmm, I have some content in variables, how to get them to a file?
(elisp) Writing to Files
that should do
fledermaus
ivan-kanis: actually it was pretty grim for along time after, I've read
quotemstr
ivan-kanis: Not really.
fledermaus
rationing didn't stop for quite a while
quotemstr
In German until 1950 or so, there was mass starvation even in the allied-occupied zones.
fledermaus
the UK was broke, and had to pay substantial money to the US for wwii loans
quotemstr
People have this vision of the Marshall Plan as some enlightened response that was enacted as soon as the war ended.
fledermaus
we only finished paying off the US recently.
ivan-kanis
fledermaus: so how in this dire economy did social healthcare emerge?
quotemstr
Actually, the prevailing mood was "let's PUNISH the Germans. Punish them HARD" until economists realized that Germany's economy being in shambles was dragging the rest of Europe down
fledermaus
ivan-kanis: socialism
people wanted healthcare and they were willing to pay the tax to get it because it was recognised as a good thing.
ivan-kanis
hmm this marshall plan is interesting, cash for not being communist
fledermaus
and I guess the politicians in power weren't as corrupt and self serving as they are now.
that's not to say it was easy, it was a staggering achievement.
ivan-kanis
(Action) skims F# introduction
sECuRE
hi there. i have a problem with emacs not being rendered correctly in my window manager (i3). it has to be some problem with the way emacs handles configurenotify events and/or updates its size hints. anyone here knows a little about that area in emacs so that i can explain the problem in depth?
(the symptoms are that the bottom bar is disappearing sometimes. probably because emacs assumes the wrong window size)
fledermaus
i3?
sECuRE
see http://i3.zekjur.net
ivan-kanis
http://i3.zekjur.net/
oops
fledermaus
not familiar with it. does it happen just after startup or at some other time?
sECuRE
just when starting emacs. after i resize it, everything is fine again
ivan-kanis
sECuRE: I see it happen on boring metacity, i just resize a bit and it goes away
chrisb
(Action) runs emacs in ratpoison with no problems with frame creation, mini-buffer popups, etc
sECuRE
ivan-kanis: good to know
i wonder if this is a bug in emacs itself
chrisb
,praise
fsbot
20:114 Do not be quick to recite the Emacs Manual before its
revelation is completed, but rather say: "EMACS, increase my
knowledge."
sECuRE
we do not have that kind of problem with any other application so far
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