logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / March / 2 / 6
quotemstr
And the reason behind that is to allow *precisely* what the Nexenta people want to do.
twb
quotemstr: that page appears to contain "^_9^H ^C^C"
OK, it's only emacs-w3m that thinks that. w3m can read it just fine.
quotemstr
The intent of that clause in the GPL is crystal clear.
twb
quotemstr: OK, then I guess Apple are just asses.
quotemstr
Or paranoid.
kensanata
Or both.
Parasses.
quotemstr
I don't begrudge them for being paranoid and assholic: the system encourages that behavior.
kensanata: Sounds like an intestinal worm.
twb
Or some kind of grammatical construct
lich
haha you said ass
:D
         

stepnem
,ASS
fsbot
ASS is, like, [0] all software sucks.
[1] but some sucks much, much more.,
[2] Bollocks to [1]. Suck is a unit vector. It's just that any given hacker finds suckage in some direction to be less disagreeable.
lich
am I the only one that uses the thumb for ctrl and index for the rest of the keys?
hmilzx
somebody
lich
told that to a mate that was warning me about getting carpal tunner from using Emacs, and he freaked :))
quotemstr
Hell, I just looked up the GPLv3, and that license is even more permissive when it comes to system libraries.
lich: I just sort of mash the modifiers with my palm.
lich
heh
people have the worst reasons for not using Emacs
and I still don't know why they compare it to an OS. Ok..is has A LOT of extras on the side, but it's hardly an OS :(
I don't miss typing like crazy just to realize that I was in "command mode", that's for sure :)
quotemstr
"vi? Isn't that the editor with two modes: one that beeps, and one that corrupts your file?"
lich
lol
stepnem
lich: I do that, too; I have the keys like L_Control L_Alt Space R_Alt R_Control; I believe that was how the keyboard Emacs was written on/for looked like (or similar)
iloveyou
I hit control with my thumb; but I have a kinesis :/
stepnem
I only press Metas and Controls with my thumbs
lich
stepnem: same here
quotemstr
Why doesn't fink violate the dpkg license the same way?
Grr, nevermind.
dim
I'm looking for a way to publish a "capacity planning", that is show how much work my team has planned for next 3 weeks, say... know of any tool?
I'd avoid http://jfontain.free.fr/moodss.htm if I can :)
kodein
sort of like a burndown chart or something?
dim
,g burndown chart
fsbot
[google] http://www.controlchaos.com/about/burndown.php
http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/scrum/release-burndown
dim
kodein: not really but that could help
it's not about finding the release date, but publishing if we still are accepting new tasks
it's about publishing how busy we are in next week
kodein
a gant chart perhaps?
gantt*
         

dim
my first idea was a rectangle per week, with a bullet list in each, and a background color. red is full, orange, little tasks allowed to be submitted, green, free for all
bullet list is for people to know their submission is already in there
but now I'd like to be able to manage the damn thing and refresh every week
It'll probably end-up integrated in some EmacsMuse site
but I need ideas/input on how to represent the thing
gantt ain't appealing
kodein
it seldom is...
dim
workload schedule might be the english for what I'm after
vhallac
Hi. If I use a function as a matcher in font-lock-keywords, is it a bad thing id this matcher function sets text properties?
twb
dim: python-aafigure is cute
dim
using ditaa now twb :)
twb
dim: bolted onto sphinx/docutils
dim
ditaa is embeddable in org-mode
twb
org-mode can FOAD
It's trying to be the gnus of task management/PIM
vhallac
The extreme case is setting the face property. :) Or should I use some other method?
lich
Building 23 for OSX. Wish me luck :D
dim
lich: get the ,,atomized one
fsbot
dim: atomized -- http://atomized.org/wp-content/cocoa-emacs-nightly/
lich
dim: I need to build as I still run 10.4
dim
oh ok :)
the atomized build script is available on github though
lich
2 more events to go, then I can backup and move to snow leopard
as much as I hate OSX, I sure hate not having the latest th emost :D
the most*
seems to be building, cool
dim
http://github.com/ieure/emacs-nightly
lich
cheers for that
lets see how this build goes first :)
dim
back to taskjuggler
lich
Finally made a switch to bitlbee. Lovely piece of software
ok, build done :D
brb, hopefully with emacs 23
dim
hmilzx
i'm a new user for emacs,when i insert a picture in a file,i can see the picture,but when i exit emacs,and open the file again,the picture become text,how can i do
lich
it works!
ivan-kanis
dim: oooooh fancy screenshot
lich: see it wasn't hard
lich
it was not :)
well I'm used to compile stuff myself. But compiling stumpwm kindof put me off
ivan-kanis
lich: that was quick to compile, you must have a beefy Mac
lich
ivan-kanis: I got a monster rendering machine :)
ivan-kanis
(Action) looks at his crappy intel 2.2Ghz
not to mention a 90s video card, *sigh*
quotemstr
That's not crappy.
At my old job, we had a bunch of Pentium-4 based machines and a K6-2/.
*That* was crappy.
lich
ivan-kanis: 2.2 is not slow
I got 2 xeon 2.6GHz processors, 3G ram..
nothing fancy
ivan-kanis
well it doesn't sound slow, but it plays games slowly
twb
ivan-kanis: 630MHz Celeron here.
OTOH, I don't have to share it
ivan-kanis
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 1.80GHz
twb: yeah I have a 800mhz VIA C3 at home
lich
my machine ain't bad, it's the OS that slows it down
ivan-kanis
twb: it doesn't have a fan, it nice and quiet ;)
lich
well, it's my work machine
twb
Well, if I had asked work would've let me use one of the PIIIs
lich
got a dualcore AMD Brisbane 5000+ at home :D
twb
But I prefer to use my Eee PC.
lich
2 2.6 cores
and a turion 64 laptop @ 1.8GHz
quotemstr
I want a full-text index of all the web pages I've visited.
ivan-kanis
i should probably slap a new graphic card for games....
twb
quotemstr: wwwoffle + grep -r ?
lich
ivan-kanis: nethack needs only a valid tty :P
quotemstr
I often find myself thinking "hrm, this reminds me of that thing I read half an hour ago -- where is it?"
lich
and it is THE ONLY game :D
ivan-kanis
lich: doomrl is more fun
quotemstr
twb: Thanks for the wwwoffle link!
lich
all the gaming that I do, I do on my consoles
I collect retro consoles and machines
twb
I never used it myself
I run polipo, backed by RAM instead of disk
But IIRC it stores the cache as <FQDN>/<magic hash> per page, where the <magic hash> file is just the HEAD followed by \n\n and then the page body.
lich
you don't know what a slow machine is untill you run DOS off a diskette on an old 386 (no HDD) :D
believe it or not, I was watching movies on that thing. 10 seconds of valid comic scenes :))
quotemstr
(Action) remembers playing Wing Commander on a machine like that.
lich
was lotus for me
and prince of persia of course
dim
polipo looks nice
twb
You need to disable it's insane DNS bullsh*t, though
Otherwise it fights with e.g. wikipedia's dodgy AAAA records
I also had to stop censoring User-Agent last month, because otherwise Wikipedia refuses to return pages to me.
(They assume if I don't supply a User-Agent then I'm an ill-behaved slurping bot.)
quotemstr
So supply a fake one.
I am Mozilla!
twb
quotemstr: I *do*. The whole point of censoring it was to catch people ASSUMING it was set.
But because I actually rely on Wikipedia, I couldn't just send them a "you fu*ked up" note and then ignore their site.
See also: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/agent.html
quotemstr
Let's claim the GPL violates the DFSG.
awoodland
I have added a call to make-frame to my server-visit-hook. What's the correct way to make C-x # destroy that frame as well as detach the client?
quotemstr
twb: That's all well and good.
twb: But when I write web applications, sometimes I can't simultaneously achieve 1) good design, 2) good functionality, and 3) user-agent blindness.
twb: Choosing 1 and 2 is the best bet.
twb
There's a simple solution: stop abusing HTTP to deploy applications.
This will require a minor amount of global larting.
awoodland
quotemstr: witty is pretty handy for that
quotemstr
The LARTs would have to be measured in megatons.
awoodland: What's that?
twb
Actually I think they're measured in LL^-1
Sorry, Ll^-1
awoodland
http://www.webtoolkit.eu/
quotemstr
twb: And while you and every other technically sophisticated person I knew would prefer that web "applications" vanish, it's not going to happen.
twb: The thin client model (of which the "web application" is the latest incarnation) has several attractive properties. Arguments about parsimony won't keep people from taking advantage of these attractive qualities.
awoodland: Thanks.
awoodland
I only found it recently but as far as web apps go it seems to be a pretty awesome framework
twb
I have no problem with thin clients *on thin client technologies*
quotemstr
awoodland: Ah, that thing. I remember seeing that, and I've been meaning to play with it.
awoodland
I found it through Object Relational Mapping
quotemstr
twb: HTML5 has been about codifying and extending the hacks people use today in order to make the web a viable thin client technology.
awoodland
because it has a nice Modern C++ way of doing it
quotemstr
twb: Even without HTML5 features, it already sorta works well enough for some applications.
lich
oopsie. emacs crashed when setting a weird font
twb
quotemstr: it's not how well it works, it's the aesthetics
quotemstr
awoodland: And I particularly like the widget model of web development. Traditional template-based crud does far more harm than good.
awoodland
yeah this is styled on QT
quotemstr
twb: The technical aesthetics don't matter for most people. Consider PHP.
twb
quotemstr: hence the aforementioned LART
quotemstr
awoodland: I wrote such a framework myself in Python. The key problem is managing persistent state. I'm curious about how this toolkit does that.
twb
quotemstr: you just make the programmer manually add/remove objects from the ORM, don't you?
awoodland
they have several options for that, and it seems to be quite well done (I've not had to touch anything as low level as maintaining persistence so far, so I can't be sure of how it works on the client side, it just works for me)
quotemstr
twb: That doesn't scale because of the strong binding between components that that approach requires.
dim
there's continuation based lisp web frameworks for interesting ways of handling the state
quotemstr
twb: State management really needs to be automatic and implicit, IMHO
dim
ORM, avoid them.
awoodland
without ORM it's so tedious
twb
quotemstr: like you said, normal people are too stupid to see the obvious
dim
quotemstr
dim: Right, but the problem with continuation-based frameworks is that the the control flow of a program can branch, backtrack, and so on in unpredictable ways.
twb
Now, see, my biggest fear with ORMs and ODBs is that they end up being both bad at databasy things, and bad at objecty things. And then you're stuck with it.
quotemstr: only if continuations are first-class :P
dim
quotemstr: to be honest I've yet to understand continuations
or use them, even
quotemstr
I don't an ORM as necessarily being an opaque mapping.
For me, it's a convenience, and when necessary, it's perfectly reasonable to break through to the underlying database layer.
dim
the only quality I want from an ORM is to be able to bypass it :)
twb
quotemstr: maybe it just reflects my antipathy for class-based OO and statically-typed relational databases.
quotemstr
twb: Using continuations to represent rendered pages *makes* them first class.
dim
for prototyping and CRUD admin interface orm can be good
twb
quotemstr: granted
quotemstr
twb: This is why my custom lisp doesn't have continuations. :-)
twb
CL doesn't have continuations, either.
But someone NIHd them into CL for one of those web frameworks
quotemstr
dim: Right. That's why I like my ORMs dumb and write-through.
dim: Mixing manual SQL in with an ORM that uses some kind of batch-processing SQL mechanism becomes *very* tricky.
dim: But if the ORM is dumb and write-through, you can just execute whatever SQL you want, then flush the ORM read cache when you're done.
(Action) is glad he's no longer a web developer.
twb
quotemstr: you got a respectable job, like baby killing?
quotemstr
Seal clubbing, actually.
twb
Yeah
quotemstr
twb: I write anti-censorship software.
twb
You're too clever to be a web dev
dim
batch-processing SQL
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