logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / February / 7 / 1
ivey
Got the fullscreen Mac OS patch applied. This is fantastic.
I hope this makes it into official sources soon.
wgreenhouse
if I had a Mac, I'd just leave it like that permanently. :-D
ams
or throw it out, seeing that macs are crippled hardware.
sako
hey all, how do i get my gui emacs to open
from terminal
i am on Mac OSX using Cocoa Emacs compiled from src
ggole
'emacs' should do it
sako
ggole emacs opens it in the terminal
ggole
Maybe you need to configure the build differently.
kensanata
sako: open /Applications/Emacs.app or something like that?
sako
hmm
         

kensanata
sako: Doesn't work?
"open" is the generic starter of stuff, I think. It imitates double-clicking on stuff.
webben
WFM. (open)
snogglethorpe
ryomanolonger: yeah, elehack's method should be pretty easy
(you could actually look at the bytecode itself if you reallly care, but it probably wouldn't increase the accuracy of the results very much)
ams
nifty,some router died somewhere
hylje
i want to do the equivalent of export FOOPATH=/bar:$FOOPATH (or M-x setenv ret FOOPATH ret /bar:$FOOPATH) in my init.el, but there seems to not be any elisp functions that would do it for me
technomancy
hylje: setenv will do that if you call it as a lisp function instead of invoking it via M-x
many functions behave differently when invoked as commands
hylje
oh
thanks
fledermaus
technomancy: evening. any luck?
technomancy
fledermaus: I realized my emacs git clone is from savannah, which hasn't been updated; so I'm in the process of making a fresh clone from repo.or.cz
and catching up on several-week-old incoming patches to my own project to assuage my guilt.
fledermaus
heh
technomancy
is repo.or.cz the best place from which to get it?
snogglethorpe
technomancy: yes
fledermaus
technomancy: it's been up-to-date for me, certainly it's contained patches that resulted from my submissions to the BTS in its tree in a timely fashion
zzz
snogglethorpe
hmm, is "zeros" better, or "zeroes"...?
ggole
I think both are acceptable
snogglethorpe
right, but which is better?
my intuition doesn't yield a clear feeling
ggole
Neither does mine. My instinct is to type "zeroes", but zeros doesn't look wrong
snogglethorpe
at least this isn't another one of those cases where the aspell guy decided to try and force his personal preference on the world...
ggole
Maybe "zeros" is American and "zeroes" British?
snogglethorpe
(aspell guy = annoying aspberger's tragedy)
         

parolang
really?
snogglethorpe
well probably just annoying
parolang
Oh, thought you knew the guy.
snogglethorpe
no, just interacted with him about putting entries in aspell's dic
parolang
Just...hard to imagine a guy getting excited by a spell checker, but he exists.
ah
I think there's a word for people who want to force their personal preferences on the world; they call them lexicographers.
snogglethorpe
even if you can provide ample evidence of a spelling, he makes it clear that he doesn't realllly want to add that word, and is only doing so under protest
parolang
hah
snogglethorpe
i wanted to smack him
geez
parolang
:)
snogglethorpe
it's the problem with a lot of hackers, they're naturally kind of pedantic and full of themselves
(me too of course)
parolang
You've noticed that too? :)
snogglethorpe
some can manage it gracefully, but many, well...
parolang
Especially certain fellas in the gnu world...
snogglethorpe
hm, jokes aside, gnu doesn't seem noticeably different than other foss nexuses (nexii?!)
i mean, in the asshat category
asshats are well distributed
parolang
Could be...I guess I don't get around much.
w00tz
does emacs have something similar to vim-sessions?
snogglethorpe
w00tz: desktop-mode?
w00tz
snogglethorpe: is there an extension that would make me have a backup folder instead of saving it in the directory taht I'm working on?
snogglethorpe
(actually i think it has a weird name -- desktop-save-mode)
w00tz: you can specify it, tho i forget actually where
w00tz
now, everytime I start emacs, the buffers get loaded or can I control taht as well?
fro0g_
there' also http://emacs-session.sourceforge.net/
snogglethorpe
w00tz: by default they do, but there's a "
--no-desktop" option to suppress it
fro0g_
ah, sounds exactly like emacs-session then
w00tz
alright thanks so much fro0g_ and snogglethorpe, i'll take a look at them and decide on which one fits my working style :) thanks!
snogglethorpe
hmm, should really rename that command to just "desktop-mode"... (is there any use of desktops if you _aren't_ saving them?)
w00tz
snogglethorpe: no there's not, because the whole point is to take a snapshot of what you're working on ;)
fro0g_
w00tz: emacs-session hasn't been updated since 2003, so you should probably go with the desktop one
snogglethorpe
i just know that if i propose that renaming, _somebody_ on the dev list will stridently object for some hair-brained reason... :(
i'm afraid to suggest changing anythign these days...
ggole
snogglethorpe: you mean drew adams?
snogglethorpe
ggole: hm, well he's one of the most silly, but there are others with a similar propensity
ggole
I was browsing the bugs list, and his name popped out for some reason
kensanata
snogglethorpe: Maybe you should treat emacs-devel as a write-only repository. Just post ideas but ignore replies.
ggole
Can't imagine why
kensanata
A sense of detachment helps.
Not subscribing to the list also helps.
That's what I do. :)
snogglethorpe
ggole: the annoying thing about drew is that he almost never actually has _reasons_ for objecting, he apparently just likes to object
ggole
yeah
Usually about documentation
snogglethorpe
and the way he suggests complicated features/changes and then refuses to give a use-case/exmple when prompted (even when asked very politely), and immediately backs off saying "never mind"
anyway, enough griping
Modius
I just installed 23.1.1 - it starts up very slowly, and freezes for durations while running - does it try to do some network thing on startup?
This is on Vista 64
Note - I don't use it for news or anything
damd
Modius: could it possibly be tramp that's slow at startup?
Modius
damd: What's tramp?
snogglethorpe
Modius: do you have a reachable network?
Modius
snogglethorpe: Yes
damd
Modius: a system for emacs (turned on by default) which lets you edit files on other computers seamlessly
snogglethorpe
Modius: I think it tries to lookup the current hostname on startup, and sometimes that causes hangs if DNS is not usable for some reason
(well, hang until the DNS lookup times out)
Modius
I can ping my hostname; but I'd like to turn this off - how do I do it?
snogglethorpe
no clue about that
Modius: hmm, it looks like emacs wil not do the lookup if the system host-name already seems to be fully resolved, and it does that just by looking for a "." in the hostname
so you could try setting the hostname to something wiht a dot
(e.g., in the shell: "sudo hostname myhost.blargh.com")
Modius
How do I set hostname (I'm on vista 64 by the way)
snogglethorpe
on windows, ah, no clue
presumably some dialog box somwhere
Modius
This is incredibly obnoxious - is it really just this tramp thing, something I can just remove?
snogglethorpe
i have no idea
could be lots of things... emacs bug? windows bug? emacs misconfiguration? system misconfiguration?
kensanata
Traditionally the answer has been a system misconfiguration. But I don't understand enough about networking to defend that answer. :)
Modius_
Cygwin's hostname.exe is instant
snogglethorpe
when in doubt, doubt windows, I always say
Modius_
This makes this build pretty damned useless
snogglethorpe
Modius_: i think you'll need to find someone who actually uses windows to get a better answer tho
Modius_
No, I need to find some way to make Emacs start in some text editing mode
You know, where I can start it and it doesn't try to do stuff with the network but just let me edit text
snogglethorpe
incidentally, it's always good to look at the "PROBLEMS" file, to see if it discusses your problem
i think you can do it using: C-h C-p
Modius_: it doesn't yet seem clear that the network is actually the problem tho, based on what you've posted here
Modius_
Is there some startup log?
Or a way to see the order of operation on startup?
snogglethorpe
eh?
"order of operation"?
of what?
quotemstr
And the final result.
Modius_
Is there something I can type in that will show me what it's doing on startup
quotemstr
'times' for bzr check on emacs 3664m48.353s 1118m2.436s
snogglethorpe
Modius_: it calls like 10,239,578 functions on startup
Modius_
Right; but with a scrolling list maybe I could see the one that's taking 2 minutes
snogglethorpe
Modius_: you expect a list of every function called at startup?
Modius_: that's insane
Modius_
I said "what it's doing at startup". Some programs have logs.
snogglethorpe
Modius_: they have logs of a limited set of operations
Modius_: on linux, you could use "strace" to see what system calls it makes
Modius_
I think *you* mentioned a list of every single function calls.
snogglethorpe
Modius_: huh?
Modius_: you want a "list" of <something>, but i don't know what you mean by <something>
Modius_: in order to provide a list like that, there needs to be some reasonable unit to use, and it's not clear what that would be in emacs case
Modius_
Perhaps the loading or activation of plugins/modules could be such a unit.
snogglethorpe
one possiblity that might help with your problem is a list of system calls made -- at least it's a well-defined interface where the operations performed are likely relevant to performance
Modius_: you can examine the variable `load-history' for that
Modius_
What do I type to examine variable load-history? My exposure to Emacs is limited to text-editing.
snogglethorpe
Modius_: C-h C-v load-history RET
however, I think that actually includes stuff loaded at "dump-time" (when emacs was compiled)
not sure if there's a way to distinguish stuff loaded after startup
but i think looking at the start of that list might give a clue
(presumably it's in reverse order, with newer entries near the beginning)
Modius_
C-h C-v didn't work for me - what is the name of that command?
snogglethorpe
Modius_: oh sorry, i meant: C-h v load-history RET
(command name is `describe-variable')
quotemstr
I can't believe only 600 people showed up for the Tea Party rally.
And that's *news*.
wgreenhouse
slow century + yellow journalism
snogglethorpe
quotemstr: but they were equivalent to over 12,000 average humans in terms of volume
(in all senses of the term "volume")
wgreenhouse
I was about to say
quotemstr
snogglethorpe: Toucé.
snogglethorpe
when elephants migrate, people pay attention
ggole
I like the Tea Party, but they haven't made a great album since The Edges of Twilight
quotemstr
snogglethorpe: And the crust groans.
ggole: Hrm. I'm not familiar with their discography, but I do like their rendition of "Paint it Black"
My god. I still can't believe 'bzr check' took 3664 minutes of CPU time.
magcius
wow, emacs is smart.
when doing query-replace "str => string", if it matches "STR", it replaces it with "STRING"
snogglethorpe
yes, yes it does
magcius
:D
quotemstr
magcius: Are you using ERC?
magcius
quotemstr, no.
I don't use emacs as my OS.
quotemstr
Ah, too bad.
chrisb
wikipedia's down?
not a question, but an expression of surprise
kensanata
chrisb: Not for me...
chrisb
english or german?
kensanata
Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carucage right now, linked off the main page.
quotemstr
worksforme.
kensanata
chrisb: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/wikipedia.org
:)
chrisb
kensanata: heh, thanks
(Action) checks <a rel="nofollow" href="http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/en.wikipedia.org">http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/en.wikipedia.org</a>
and it's just me!
kensanata
Too bad.$
Sharing IP number ranges with bad, bad people!
Time for bed over here...
chrisb
or maybe they want cookies?
Modius
I'm downgrading to Emacs 22 which seems more tolerant of my misconfigured PC/network/whatever. I don't dabble much in these unixy codebases; but if I can get this building can it be run in a debugger where I can break-with-callstacks when it messes up?
quotemstr
Modius: Yes, you can debug Emacs 22.
Modius
22 works - I may debug 23 if I can
quotemstr
In Emacs 23, the FSF removed all debugging features and licensed StarCopyProtectionThing.
Modius
In other words then - fools errand?
quotemstr
(Action) shrugs.
It's your life.
e1f
can't believe all the spam in this channel. people trying to sell something called emacs?
quotemstr
e1f: Monsanto purchased #emacs.
Now it comes genetically modified, with cons cells the size of your fist.
greboides
hehehe
cvandusen
they come for the ginsu knives, and stay for the customizable, extensible text editing
offby1
quotemstr: without conses, life itself would be impossible.
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