logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / February / 3 / 1
trogdoro
damd: migrations are scripts that do things like create tables and alter columns
it isn't necessary to alter the model (when using ActiveRecord) when you change the db though
since it's not required for the model to know about the fields
damd
is activerecord the actual database layer in rails?
trogdoro
hylje: datamapper is a more lightweight alternative to activerecord
damd: pretty much
hylje
but is that standard? because if it's not i can play the South card :)
trogdoro
it's a framework for creating models (with validation and simplified joins, etc) that talks to the db driver for you
spcshpopr8r
trogdoro: this xiki doesn't have anything to do with your project does it? http://deseng.ryerson.ca/xiki/Xiki/Main:Xiki
trogdoro
spcshpopr8r: no, that's unrelated
a name collision
mine is at http://xiki.org
spcshpopr8r
trogdoro: yeah...I was just a little confused...I dig what your doin
trogdoro
spcshpopr8r: ty:)
hylje: not standard in rails, no
but very easy to plug in
         

damd
hylje: i'm confused. are you a django guy or a rails guy?
spcshpopr8r
trogdoro: have you looked at org-mode at all? Or, more specifically, "worg" http://orgmode.org/worg/
trogdoro
I don't use either though, I use couchdb
(there's some couchdb stuff in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aIsQ71tDpg)
spcshpopr8r
I started using org-mode w/in emacs less than a month ago...and it's been like jet fuel for my workflow...but I have been giving lots of thought to a wiki, kinda like what you're doing
trogdoro
spcshpopr8r: have looked at org mode a few times over the years
seems like a pretty nice approach
a bit more structured than Xiki's approach
(though most of Xiki could easily be used with things like org mode)
spcshpopr8r
trogdoro: yeah...I hope I can find the time soon to see if there's a good org-mode/xiki fit...I'm excited
trogdoro
spcshpopr8r: I watched the org mode tech talk recently: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJTwQvgfgMM
looks like some really compelling stuff
xiki takes more of a "take notes and do stuff first, and organize later" type of approach
and has navigation/commands/code/searches built into your notes
that's probably a pretty bad oversimplification though
cluck
org can do all that too and more
trogdoro
one of the more compelling parts of xiki is making plugins
cluck: did you watch both of the screencasts?
seems like there's not much overlap with most of xiki and org mode as a whole
there's overlap in the note-taking part of them
but not (that I know of) with file navigation, searching, etc
cluck: not familiar with how you run commands in org mode, but xiki takes a pretty unique approach
re having a wiki syntax for running a command in the context of a file tree, etc
and, it can run commands (transparently over ssh) on remote servers the same way it runs them locally
org mode looks like it has some cool stuff where you can use the trees to generate laTeX and as a general html editor, etc - Xiki doesn't do any of that
greboides
trogdoro: interesting this xiki, when i have audio am gonna watch your tuts
trogdoro
greboides: excellent
chrisb
(Action) likes carsten's talk
greboides
trogdoro: do you know ,,el4r
fsbot
trogdoro
greboides: el4r is what makes xiki possible
(it's built on top of el4r)
greboides
oh cool
trogdoro
el4r rocks
surprised it hasn't caught on more among ruby people
greboides
thought that you could have rewritten more than a half of it if not
i like ruby but im a begginer as a programmer so im not up to it just now
also i like lisp too its more natural to me than some hard ruby code
trogdoro
anyone else have any thoughts on the screencasts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aIsQ71tDpg and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aIsQ71tDpg
very interested in your feedback
was a bit disappointed I didn't get any response on the emacs-devel list
technomancy
trogdoro: you'd probably get a better response if you didn't link to youtube
trogdoro: emacs-devel is a pretty free-software-centric channel
         

trogdoro
technomancy: had the exact same thought
sepult
,emacs-devel
fsbot
hmm, emacs-devel is at http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?emacs-devel
trogdoro
technomancy
trogdoro: that shows a page that's blank except for the header
trogdoro: it's a bad idea to assume Emacs developers have proprietary plugins installed
trogdoro
technomancy: I agree, to an extent
but I've got to think even Stallman has watched youtube clips at some point in his life:)
technomancy: what are you thinking, hosting mpeg4 files on xiki.org maybe?
I could probably do that
technomancy
trogdoro: ogg theora if you want extra brownie points
trogdoro
:)
technomancy
but I'd be more inclined to pay attention with an .mp4 link than a youtube link
trogdoro
technomancy: if you are the "technomancy" of rails fame, I'd be extremely interested in hearing your feedback to the web development screencast
the screencast uses merb, but I've had the same functionality working with rails (though it might need a little dusting off)
making a xiki plugin is super-easy if you know ruby though
technomancy
I actually haven't done much web work in the last year, but I'll give it a peek
trogdoro
you can see in the trees that they are just an alternate representation for invoking methods on classes
so, if someone can write a ruby method to get a list of databases from postgres (for example) they are like 20 seconds away from having a tree-based UI in Xiki
technomancy
cool
trogdoro
technomancy: noticed on your bloog you were checking out couchdb
technomancy
trogdoro: not as much these days, but I still think it's a really cool technology
trogdoro
the web development screencast demos the couchdb plugin (though there's a lot to it that the screencast doesn't cover)
technomancy
cool
I just love how quickly you can get going with couch
everything seems so obvious
trogdoro
yeah, very cool
been using couch for many months
went from mysql to postgres to couch to simpledb+s3 then back to couch
tempted to give mongo a closer look
from what I've seen it isn't quite as easy to get going with (and doesn't have the cool map-reduce stuff for views)
technomancy
(Action) is dreading the day he has to go back to a relational DB
ryomanolonger
it is not?
trogdoro
(Action) does as well
though I do miss being able to do dynamic queries
(partly why mongo intrigues me)
rgr
what functions can you recommend for diplayin glists for debug/learning purposes.
trogdoro
technomancy: interested in any thoughts you might have on the wiki syntax screencast as well (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_ESTIRAAOA)
ryomanolonger
rgr: ,pprint
e1f
what is the purpose of xiki?
or rather what uses does it have
damd
i got the feeling that xiki was all over the place
everything was bound to C-RET
and it did different stuff all the time (dwim?)
jlf
,xiki
fsbot
Please, continue.
damd
,xiki is http://xiki.org
fsbot
created.
jlf
(Action) still doesn't know what it is
e1f
look at the screencast posted
jlf
"Wikified tree-ified features for emacs, written in ruby"...ok..?
damd
hehe
rgr
,df pprint
fsbot
ERROR: Symbol's function definition is void: pprint
damd
,pprint
fsbot
jlf
e1f: i started it, but there's no sound on this machine and it was similarly nonenlightening until i lost interest
trogdoro
sry, stepped away from the keyboard
hey, e1f
yeah, it kind of is all over the place
e1f
it's not meant as a criticism of the screencast
it's fine
trogdoro
e1f: ty
e1f
but what is the application that would use all these features
trogdoro
there are some main use cases
e1f
for documentation?
it's not clear to me
trogdoro
yeah, that's one of them
for creating your own notes about things
e1f
you're showing me a hammer and that you can use the hammer to hammer two pieces of wood together with a nail
trogdoro
e1f: did you look at this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aIsQ71tDpg
e1f
but you're not showing me that you can build a house
trogdoro
e1f navigating files is a big use case
the above url shows how you use Xiki to develop web apps
but, just navigating files and running commands is probably the simple use case
searching in your project for a string
e1f
perhaps changing the descriptive text of the youtube page would help
trogdoro
the way it shows search results is pretty unique
it draws out the file tree and shows the results in place
then you can use that tree as a navigation element
and/or run commands or do other searches in the dirs
e1f: don't remember what I put in the description
e1f: which screencast are you looking at?
brb
(Action) decrees that anyone here who hasn't checked out the screencasts is a monkey's uncle
e1f
the one you posted earlier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_ESTIRAAOA
is xiki really better than m-x grep?
anyway, heading for the train
cluck
trogdoro: NEPHEW!!!
<_< see what i did there?
trogdoro
cluck: :)
ouch, you turned it all around on me:)
e1f: grep shows search results in a standard flat list
technomancy
being a monkey's uncle is not really that bad of a thing. it might just mean you have siblings who have made Unwise Life Decisions.
trogdoro
lol
xiki shows the results in the tree
whether it's better probably depends on the situation
I would argue that it is better in some (and even most) situations
gives you more context
makes long search results easier to visually digest and navigate
and, the search results are all just text in a wiki format
so you can delete the stuff you don't want
and you can add notes in the search results, like "fix this"
and you can save them in a file and use them later
and you can do multiple searches next to each other, or in different dirs in the same tree
and expand and collapse each search as needed
you can also run commands in the search result trees
brb
rgr
ryomanolonger: no pprint function.
ryomanolonger
rgr: ,,pp
fsbot
oops, Wrong number of arguments: (lambda (object &rest ignore) (pp object)), 0
trogdoro
e1f: another use case: running commands
like if you're going through an install that you need to repeat later
you usually need to run some commands in various directories
and modify certain lines in files
you can make a tree that contains the commands as well as the files and the lines
and you can use it to navigate to those lines
ryomanolonger
,xiki
fsbot
ryomanolonger, I heard xiki is http://xiki.org
trogdoro
purely as a file browser, I think it's pretty compelling
it lets you browse dirs and files as trees, but keeps the trees as just text that you can have in any buffer/file
rgr
what "map" function do I use to loop on a list and add a list in each iteration to a result list? Or do I do it another way? e.g forall buffers get a list of things in that buffer and add that list to the "total list".
isomer
rgr: loop and push, maybe?
technomancy
rgr: sounds like a job for reduce!
(Action) is a big reduce fan
unhealthfully so
rgr
there is mapconcat but that is string orientated
ggole
mapcan
rgr
thats it thanks
ggole
technomancy: folds are awesome
trogdoro
(Action) redecrees that anyone who hasn't checked out the screencasts is a monkey's proctologist
find the silver lining in that one:)
technomancy
veteranary proctologists are ... well-paid?
it's a stretch
trogdoro
dang
:)
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