logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / January / 4 / 1
Han
please continue.
offby1
Han: :)
technomancy: hmm ... does that repo.or.cz have any commits in common with Savannah? I'm doing a "git remote update" and it's taking an alarmingly long time ... I fear it'll download a whole 'nother copy of the tree ...
technomancy
offby1: no common commits =(
offby1
aaaaaagghggghhhh
technomancy
serves us right using a non-gnu version control system
offby1
the thought of switching to bzr ... *shudder*
technomancy
ugh
offby1
technomancy: are you one of those people (like me) who just doesn't "get" other DVCSs?
technomancy
offby1: no, I *do* get it. that's why I'm worried.
(Action) was hacking on rudel, which was hosted on sourceforge bzr
actually that may have had more to do with SF (ugh!) than bzr, but it was still lousy
         

bob2
does sf use the smart server?
technomancy
dunno
working without magit is like hacking with oven mitts on
bob2
haha
magit by itself is a big argument for git
wgreenhouse
technomancy: (boxing-gloves-mode 1)
technomancy
yes
wgreenhouse
vc-dir with git is quite a pain. "yes, thank you, having my vcs be made to act dumb as a brick is just what I wanted"
laurus
Should I use RMail or Gnus for e-mail?
wgreenhouse
if you value your sanity, neither
bpalmer
gnus is probably the most popular, most all embracing of the mail clients
neosoothsayer
(Action) has heard a lot about Mutt
laurus
bpalmer, I see
bpalmer
of the elisp mail clients, I should say
cluck
vcs are stupid, file management belongs to the file system level
bob2
it's pretty all-embracing compared to any group of mail clients
laurus
Are there any major disadvantages to rmail as opposed to gnus?
neosoothsayer
cluck: is that c-luck or simply cluck?
bob2
rmail is very very different to gnus
laurus
I want to use bbdb for my address book
bob2
probably all emacs mail clients support bbdb
laurus
bob2: Cool. I guess the only thing making me hold back from rmail is that I see most people on the web writing about gnus
         

cluck
neosoothsayer: whatever you prefer, it's merely a pronounceable random sequence of chars
neosoothsayer
cluck: hehe, here I was - attributing more meaning to it
laurus
I'm not even sure if IMAP works with rmail... it seems people have had trouble with it
bob2
probably not
laurus
bob2, ok, it's gnus then :)
technomancy
laurus: gnus is a newsreader that has been taught to read mail
laurus
technomancy, yeah, that's why I was suspicious of it :p
wgreenhouse
,mail
fsbot
[->] I heard mailreaders is gnus, mew, mh-e, rmail, vm, wanderlust and cmail
technomancy
the UI works well (apart from the extra complexity) but it's disorienting at first
wgreenhouse
mew is nice for me, but has external binary dependencies which some people don't like
laurus
wgreenhouse, cool, I'm looking into it now
neosoothsayer
laurus: give Mutt a shot!
laurus
neosoothsayer, it's not built into emacs is it?
cluck
technomancy: if only that was its only problem...
neosoothsayer
laurus: no, but you can use emacs to edit your emails
laurus
neosoothsayer, I usually use emacs-gtk, will that work with mutt since mutt is a terminal app?
wgreenhouse
laurus: yeah, mutt can be set up to call just about any external editor as a mail composer. one nice way to do that would be to enable server in Emacs and use an emacsclient frame as mutt's editor
laurus
wgreenhouse, interesting... I'll look into that, although mew looks cool too
They all look cool :)
wgreenhouse
laurus: yeah, I don't use mutt, personally, but I enjoy using Emacs to fill out just about as many other apps' text fields as possible. :-P
laurus
wgreenhouse, that's cool!
wgreenhouse
mutt can work from the EDITOR environment variable or its own configuration to figure out what editor to use, right neotoothsayer?
laurus: the big thing I like about Mew is how it handles indexing/search
simple "virtual mailbox" interface to display the results
laurus
wgreenhouse, I'm sold, it looks great, I'm going to use it. Hehe. I'm so excited!
Sweet!
Do you use IMAP?
wgreenhouse
yeah, I have it set up for two IMAP accounts
laurus
Wow, cool
wgreenhouse
and the corresponding SMTP servers
laurus
I'm looking into redoing my e-mail
Moving off of web-based e-mail :p
neosoothsayer
Does anyone use narrowing feature?
wgreenhouse
one thing I could never figure out in Gnus was how to configure two smtp servers and have it use the correct one based on your from: address. I'm sure it's possible, but I never mastered configuring it or anything close
laurus
Hmm
wgreenhouse
so in that sense mew is an improvement for me from gnus
laurus: let me know if you'd like configuration advice, also be sure to sign up for the English-language support list (mew-int-request@mew.org) :-)
majhool
does anyone know if i can pass more than two arguments to a filter function set by set-process-filter? or if i can make set-process-filter call the filter function within its (set-process-filter's) calling function's scope?
laurus
Hey, thanks wgreenhouse... I will. However, I need to set up e-mail on my new hosting account before I start with this. Basically, I'm thinking of getting off Gmail
The main reason is that I don't like my GMail address, to be honest, which is probably silly and there's probably some way around that
rgr
wgreenhouse: I have a good set up for multismtp
it uses msmtp and is pretty straightforward. Uses from address to select smtp.
cluck: what other problems are there with gnus?
laurus: and of course you can still use gmail should you want to with gnus eithre directly or maybe via your own imap server.
laurus
rgr, yeah, that's probably what I'll end up doing, I guess
It's just easier to stick with it I suppose
rgr
I use gmail. I use getmails to fetch from gmail using imap , then procmail to filter and put into maildir. dovecot then provides an imap interface to all my emails from various accounts.
If you give gnus a go stick with it as its very powerful. Most people that knock it didn't try it for long I guess as its easily the most powerful news/mail reader I ever used. But it is hard work at times.
DuClare
I use postfix to receive mail, fdm to filter and stuff into maildirs. Mutt then provides a full screen interface to all my emails
laurus
rgr, well I'll consider it... I think I'd like to start with mew right now
But thanks for the info
DuClare
rgr, Do you have any experience with mutt?
rgr
Mut isnt emacs so doesn't count. And anything Mutt provides so does Gnus pretty much. Mutt is alright but if you're an emacs user I think its pretty grim to leave emacs for something so common as email.
DuClare
rgr, Yes, that's my problem
rgr
Gnus aint easy to start with. But its worth it.
DuClare
rgr, I've been using mutt for quite some time. Switched to emacs roughly a year ago, but I haven't had the motivation to figure out Gnus and make the switch .. I was just wondering if there's a lot Gnus can provide over Mutt, other than the Emacs UI
bob2
gnus also does news
rgr
and reading news.
offby1
(Action) just watched the magit video ... gotta try magit some more
neosoothsayer
offby1: link?
bob2
and being in emacs gives you lots of nice stuff by itself
technomancy
the video is great
rgr
But "only the emacs UI" is more than that - its the emacs way of life. e.g live org links, google search etc. You name it you now have it in your email/news too.
bob2
ctrl-s in your inbox
rgr
magit rocks.
neosoothsayer
Anyone has the link to the magit video?
antoszka
http://xtalk.msk.su/~ott/common/writings/emacs-devenv/cedet-qt-name-completion.png  where do the climacs-like completions on this screenshot come from?
DuClare
Emacs is also rather unstable :<
bob2
you've managed to crash emacds?
skorpan
antoszka: cedet
rgr
Wow. Someone needs to do an emacs port of Assassins Creed for the PS3 ....
DuClare
bob2, Sometimes it's a crash, sometimes it just gets in a fancy state which is a pain to correct
skorpan
antoszka: ,,cedet
fsbot
hmm, cedet is [0] at http://cedet.sourceforge.net/
[1] at http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CEDET,
[2] Collection of Emacs Development Environment Tools,
[3] Here There Be Dragons,
[4] http://xtalk.msk.su/~ott/en/writings/emacs-devenv/EmacsCedet.html, ..[Type ,more]
offby1
neosoothsayer: http://www.vimeo.com/2871241
DuClare
rgr, What do you use for google searches within emacs?
antoszka
skorpan: thanks, thought cedet used something completions-specific that I could use without cedet itself
rgr
err, google ...
offby1
DuClare: are you using a release, or are you building from the Bleeding Edge"?
DuClare
offby1, Release
rgr
why switch to a browser?
offby1
DuClare: bummer
DuClare
rgr, w3m?
rgr
yes
skorpan
antoszka: i don't use cedet myself so i can't really say
cluck
rgr: the main one is the "get a guru to teach you to config and use it or be damned", others are the locking that may happen, lossage on formating (though i actually consider this one a positive since i like my email as text and not ZOMFGHTMLSMILIESSSSSSS), etc
rgr
but with a prefix I can also launch external browser (google-chrome now) with word or region at point.
skorpan
has anyone here successfully used cedet for python?
rgr
cluck : never had it lock. And I dont know what you mean by loss of formatting. Many clients (non gui) suffer from that. But with gnus you can select preferred rendering. Getting started isnt that hard.
but yeah I agree html email sucks big time ;)
the completion UIs shown in that picture are described in the accompanying article aficr
bpalmer
People should have transitioned to HTML email about 15 years ago.
bremner
screw that
rgr
I think he's joking. No emacs user would ever say that.
skorpan
of course he's joking
we should use RTF
bob2
text/enriched!
bremner
some things are too serious to joke about
cluck
txt/orgasm-mode-bi**hes!
(Action) hides
offby1
(Action) seeks out cluck and slaps
skorpan
what is the proper way to start using cedet if you're running emacs from CVS and want to use the version that is shipped with emacs?
offby1
rgr: he's an XEmacs user. Who knows what goes through their twisted, alien minds?
bpalmer
I'm only partially joking. The transition to html is a pain; but if it were done already, we'd all be better off.
skorpan
what!?
bpalmer
offby1: superior thoughts and/or brandy.
offby1
(Action) , being Old Skool, prefers plain text
rgr
I rememberstill squeezin spots thinking how "kewl" RTF was. I soon learnt ......
offby1
Visions of Johanna
skorpan
haven't you ever been to a newsgroup with webTV users?
bpalmer
offby1: text/html can be pretty plain.
offby1
rgr: Gross.
rgr
I am getting more old schoold and senile as I use emacs. I think I'm turning into conolers ......
skorpan
they all used HTML formatted posts with massive "signatures" consisting of BMP images with their favorite bands
bpalmer
skorpan: so there were some issues to work out.
offby1
rgr: been drinking a bit recently? If so, may I recommend erc-spelling-enable?
better than Sen-Sen!
rgr
e.g my main "dev" machine hasnt been on in a week or so and I am doing it ALL in (was xterm) urxvt-unicode in screen on a 9 year old laptop.
skorpan
i wouldn't mind e.g. markdown formatted e-mail
rgr
god bless the ibm thinkpad. It deserves awards
bpalmer
skorpan: but there's no excuse for a bazillion ad-hoc, informally written incorrect things that guess at URLs inside text.
offby1
rgr: apart from the "9 year old", that describes me exactly.
skorpan
or reST or textile or whatever
offby1
rgr: Thinkpad T60 here :)
rgr
what lapt for you?
fu*ker!
excuxse my french
bpalmer
skorpan: or how about html ?
you know, a consistent, easily parsed, universal markup language that has an actually active standardization and upgrade process ?
rgr
mine is an X30. But what a beautiful MOBILE machine. Stuck a new battery in, finally got acpi working with debian and I get a good few hours on a single charge.
skorpan
bpalmer: exactly what are you proposing here?
bpalmer
text/html 15 years ago.
rgr
looking for a fight I reckon ....
offby1
bpalmer: ever tried to design a fancy (i.e., with styles) HTML email? It's a nightmare. HTML email renderers are far less standardized than web browsers.
bpalmer
offby1: that's ok. HTML isn't about appearance.
offby1
bpalmer: it sure isn't :-|
skorpan
the problem is that people *think* it is
rgr
and web browsers are far from standardised. Also like an idiot I listened to people in the know and did a little project in XHTML strict. Only to discover it doesnt actually work.
laurus
Totally off-topic question: Would anyone balk at a lastname.firstname@gmail.com address, rather than firstname.lastname ?
skorpan
rgr: you can thank MSIE for that
bpalmer
let's send a cybernetic organism back in time to beat up motorcycle riders and implement consistent HTML libraries.
laurus: a little bit, in some contexts.
rgr
laurus: becuase most clients parse it the other way to guess your name abd people talk first name - last name in that order.
bpalmer
It'd mostly confuse me about what the last name is
skorpan
rgr: fortunately, it's trivial to convert XHTML 1.0 strict to HTML 4 transitional
laurus
bpalmer, rgr, yeah... I can't get firstname.lastname unfortunately
So that's what annoys me
offby1
laurus: I'd figure it was military :)
bpalmer
firstname.initial.lastname ?
rgr
add a cool number on then so you look like a real nOOb .... ;)
bpalmer
the_right_honorable.firstname.lastname
offby1
MP
laurus
bpalmer, that's not a bad idea, I've considered it, I just don't usually use my initial
bpalmer
Protector_Of_The_CommonWealth.Firstname.I
rgr
or hack the other guys password and nick his account.
laurus
rgr, hahahaha
I'm thinking of just going with lastname.firstname
rgr
offby1: how long oyu had the T60? What are you running on it?
laurus: dont do that. you'll confuse people.
laurus
rgr, okay
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