logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / January / 18 / 1
shapr
Is there some sort of input-method that has symbolic names for a decent chunk of the unicode chars?
I realize ucs lets me put in the hex number, but I'd rather have nice names.
corto
offby1, i just sent my message to my client (similar to your suggestion), ill see what he says... i'm not a damn HTML janitor!
quotemstr
Nifty.
This algorithm is very clever.
e1f
"New York Magazine is reporting from what seems to be pretty solid word that the New York Times will start charging online readers for its content."
quotemstr
Yeah, sure.
e1f
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/01/new_york_times_set_to_mimic_ws.html
quotemstr
Yeah, I'm reading it now.
I'm appalled.
Especially considering that the Times was burned pretty badly the last time they tried this.
Their columnists complained that their readership decreased and threatened to go elsewehre.
e1f
of course there will be a decrease in readership. the important question is: will that readership be enough to keep the paper afloat
fledermaus
murdoch?
         

quotemstr
e1f: I doubt it'll increase revenue in the long term.
e1f
if you only need 100 paying people to make a profit and 1000 people read the paper for free, do you care
quotemstr
e1f: News is largely fungible.
There's also the prestige factor: the New York Times is valuable because it is influential, and because it is influential, it attracts top reporters and writers.
If those people leave (because their potential audience is now much smaller), it'll start the paper on a downward spiral of irrelevancy.
e1f
possibly. they can always start their own blog and charge for it
there's no need to be affiliated with the paper
quotemstr
Good for us; bad for the paper.
Besides: if current trends hold, the most influential blogs are free.
bremner
slashdot!
quotemstr
Take, say, Krugman's, or Simon Johnson's.
bremner: ... is a hive of scum and villainy.
bremner
hmm, that is pretty hurtful out of context :)
quotemstr
(Nevermind my nigh-daily highly-moderated posts.)
rgr
e1f: All murdochs rags are to be charging.
quotemstr
How does lexbind implement lexical closures?
Some kind of indirection?
Currently, in elisp, the value is contained in the symbol.
LET is very simple: save the old value on the stack, and stuff a new one in the symbol. Restore when done.
But that obviously doesn't wok for lexical scoping.
fledermaus
zzz
quotemstr
Yep.
e1f
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/quantum-theory-via-40tonne-trucks-how-science-writing-became-popular-1866934.html
litherp2
is there a quick way to change a buffer name?
quidnunc
,df rename-buffer
fsbot
rename-buffer is an interactive built-in function in `C source code'.
(rename-buffer NEWNAME &optional UNIQUE)
Change current buffer's name to NEWNAME (a string).
If second arg UNIQUE is nil or omitted, it is an error if a
buffer named NEWNAME already exists. ..[Type ,more]
litherp2
thank you
quidnunc
no problem
cluck
quotemstr: i'm going to say this without even having seen the actual code because it's the quickest and simplest way to do it without major hassle: it keeps track of its own sh*t (i realize it's a worthless answer but it's at the level of its parent question)
         

quotemstr
Uh, right.
cluck
the devil is in the details
quotemstr
It's the environment mapping I'm interested in. There are a couple ways to do it.
madpickle
,,df lexical-let
fsbot
lexical-let is a Lisp macro in `cl-macs.el'.
(lexical-let VARLIST BODY)
Like `let', but lexically scoped.
The main visible difference is that lambdas inside BODY will create
lexical closures as in Common Lisp.
madpickle
is that what you mean, quotemstr ?
quotemstr
madpickle: That's one way, but I doubt lexbind uses that approach. It's inefficient.
(You have to walk the tree.)
cluck
madpickle: i believe he meant the one in a branch made in C meant to extend elisp for e24
madpickle
right
cluck
man that sentence sucks, oh well, i guess it passed the intended message along ok
madpickle
i understood you
,,yow
fsbot
This PORCUPINE knows his ZIPCODE.. And he has ``VISA''!!
kodein
,spook
fsbot
AIMSX Semtex morse cracking Commecen Ceridian Plame munitions Consul
tmg1|lorax
anyone have any idea why a "#if defined (HAVE_GCONF)" block would be executing even though HAVE_GCONF is undefined?
ams
tmg1|lorax: uhm, cause.
tmg1|lorax
ams: I don't follow
ams
tmg1|lorax: how do you know that macro is undefined?
tmg1|lorax
gdb claims so, maybe it's wrong
it seems odd that it would be so
ams
uhm
and how did you compile things?
tmg1|lorax
good question, make? gcc -ggdb?
ams
uhm...
read the documentation.
tmg1|lorax
k
ams
since -ggdb3 is required to get macros handled in gdb.
otherwise, any macro will just be undefined.
and that is even a newish feature
tmg1|lorax
thanks
ams
no, read the manual.
tmg1|lorax
will do :)
Surgo
Is there a function for running a regexp search/replace on a string variable, or must it be done in a temporary buffer?
it looks like there's stuff in elib, but I can't find that in Emacs 23 -- has it stopped being distributed with Emacs?
Nebukadneza
hi
i'm working with emacs23 collaborative (start-server), however if i try to search (C-s) and the other person scrolls or types my search bar is closed
how can i do that properly?
tmg1|lorax
tfm doesn't mention -ggdb3. what tfm should I be reading?
ggole
Surgo: replace-regexp-in-string
Surgo
thanks; looks like I was reading an old documentation page for elib
sshelagh
Nebukadneza: Is it an editing mode you have done yourself?
Nebukadneza
sshelagh: no
sshelagh: M-x start-server is a normal emacs(23) thing
DuClare
Nebukadneza, It's not "collaborative" emacs
Nebukadneza
no?
DuClare
It's a client-daemon model which allows you to start the session early and open frames (graphical or otherwise) as-needed
Nebukadneza
if you search emacswiki for collab you find that
oh
well, is there something like a real emacs collaborative mode?
DuClare
I've heard about rudel
qDot_
,,rudel
fsbot
I think rudel is [0] a collaborative editing client for Emacs that understands the obby protocol.
[1] http://rudel.sourceforge.net,
[2] (unfortunately requires CEDET),
[3] be sure to get trunk from bzr instead of the release: bzr://rudel.bzr.sourceforge.net/bzrroot/rudel/trunk/
qDot_
It's a little weird, but it does the job.
Then again, I suppose that could be the slogan for emacs in general.
Nebukadneza
ah, a new obby client
cool
thanks
wow
that looks seriously cool
i mean, like, really
sshelagh
but does it work?
Nebukadneza
i'll try tomorrow
busy with worst code ever for uni today
sshelagh
Nebukadneza: let me know
Nebukadneza
sshelagh: sure, i'll do
sshelagh
Nebukadneza: ta
qDot_
It works.
I've used it a couple of times.
cluck
[2] makes no sense any longer, cedet has been merged for e24 and afaik rudel isn't being backported
snogglethorpe
quotemstr: lexbind uses different methods for compiled and interpreted code -- for the interpreter it essentially switches to deep (spaghetti) binding, but clears the TOS pointer whenever it does a call; for the compiler, it stores lexical variables in slots on the call frame, just like a typical compiled language (for variables which are closed over by lambda, it stores them in separate environment vectors, meaning
a single indirection to variables shared with closures)
Nebukadneza
qDot_: nice!
they have a own server?
specksynder
I am starting out on using Mew for IMAP mail access. I customized the mew-summary-form variable to show just the date and from fields in summary view, but it just shows the same default fields.
Does Mew behave well in summary mode if you are using it?
,yow
fsbot
Then, it's off to RED CHINA!!
specksynder
,praise
fsbot
It is not for true believers men or women to take their choice in the
affairs if True Editor and His documentation decree otherwise. He
that disobeys True Editor and His documentation strays far indeed.
specksynder
,praise
fsbot
The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit
is life and peace, because the sinful mind is hostile to True Editor.
It does not submit to True Editor's law, nor can it do so. Those
controlled by their sinful nature cannot please True Editor.
quotemstr
snogglethorpe: Thanks for the information. I know that deep binding is just chaining the environments together, but isn't than O(N) lookup for each variable value?
snogglethorpe
quotemstr: basically, but the stack only goes as far as the current call boundary with this system, so it's not too bad; for the interpreter it doesn't matter a whole lot
(traditional deep binding never resets the stack, so it can get bad if you want to access global variables)
quotemstr
snogglethorpe: I'm implementing a very simple Lisp-1 interpreter and I'm trying to decide whether static scope is even feasible. The nice thing about dynamic scope is that I don't have to walk the code in advance.
snogglethorpe
well you could use this deep-binding trick... :]
i don't think the speed is a big deal for a simple interpreter
quotemstr
The idea of a linear search makes me cringe though. :-)
snogglethorpe
quotemstr: but it's a _short_ linear search
and probably everything's in the cache
ect
Dear all, How can I make emacs' default indent as 4 char space in c-mode and c++-mode ? Now it's 2 char by default.
quotemstr
,dv c-basic-offset
fsbot
*Amount of basic offset used by + and - symbols in `c-offsets-alist'.
Also used as the indentation step when `c-syntactic-indentation' is
nil.
This is a style variable. Apart from the valid values described
above, it can be set to the symbol `set-from-style'. In that case, ..[Type ,more]
snogglethorpe
each closure contains its own environment pointer, which stores the binding stack at the moment of creation (so it can see variables closed over), and then while evaluating the function body, "let"s push/pop a binding list on top of the closed-over one
quotemstr
snogglethorpe: True. So closure carry around their spaghetti-bound stacks as their environment?
snogglethorpe
quotemstr: yes
quotemstr
Seems simple enough.
snogglethorpe
it's very simple and works pretty well
quotemstr
And I can always change it to use bytecode and stack slots later.
snogglethorpe
yes
quotemstr
And I don't need to walk the code in advance.
This works.
snogglethorpe
right
twb
A closure is just a function with state, in the same way that an object is just a datum with procedures.
snogglethorpe
yes
arg gotta go to work
blargh
twb
snogglethorpe: don't remind me!
quotemstr
Have fun. Thanks.
bremner
closures can be procedures too, from the department of nitpick
quotemstr
twb: Yeah. I've just never been on this side of the fence before. I've written in Lisp; I just haven't written Lisp.
ect
c-basic-offset no match?
hiredman
usually you want to do free variable analysis of the expressions in the closure and collapse the environment into just those variables that are needed and store a pointer to that
(Action) now starts scrolling back to see if he is mentioning something already covered
twb
quotemstr: IIRC the recommended text for SICPers who want to study compiler design is EOPL.
quotemstr
I'll pick it up eventually.
hiredman
lisp in small pieces is great too
twb
I haven't read it, because there's no online version.
hiredman
if you are writing a lisp
quotemstr
But this thing is ancillary to a much larger program, so I want to keep it simple.
snogglethorpe
quotemstr: of coruse you could use Lua ... :]
twb
snogglethorpe: then he'd have TWO problems
snogglethorpe
(1) happy users, (2) happy implementors..
hiredman
there is a free ebook about the lua bytecode out there
snogglethorpe
i hate it when that happens!
hiredman
you could compile your lisp to lua bytecode
twb
happy users ¦ no job security
quotemstr
Thing is, I'm coding in C++.
I already pay the price for RTTI and exceptions.
And virtual functions, etc.
I can get Lisp for not very much more investment in time or code space.
twb
quotemstr: you're doing a greenspun's tenth?
quotemstr
Whereas with Lua, I'm adding 200k to a space-constrained program. At least.
twb: Indeed, I am.
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