logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / January / 16 / 1
cvandusen
Does anyone know of a mode for .dict files?
subopt
I want to start up emacs with '-f gdb --annotate=3 progName pid'. How do i pass the function and its args from the command line?
cvandusen
They're very similar to json, but...not
ams
subopt: $ emacs --help|grep eval
--eval EXPR evaluate Emacs Lisp expression EXPR
subopt
ams: thx
bpalmer
cvandusen: what uses them?
cvandusen
bpalmer: OS X
specifically, I was editing the DefaultKeyBinding.dict file
MikeJB
Hmm... Since everything is possible in emacs (e.g. http://xkcd.com/378/ ), is it possible to run a no-GUI program directly inside of Emacs instead of having to use a terminal emulator?
mzz
MikeJB: well, emacs has a terminal emulator
         

MikeJB
Well, that's kind of what I meant. I meant "instead of having to use a separate terminal emulator"
hmmm...
mzz
MikeJB: so use that (M-x term, iirc) or use M-! to run a shell command that doesn't need a fullblown terminal
MikeJB
...
M-x term and then "python"... Only in emacs.
Could I force it to use python syntax highlighting for this instance of python or would that be pushing even emacs to the feature limit?
bpalmer
there are several terminal emulators. term, ansi-term, ansi-terminal
ggole
MikeJB: M-x term doesn't know anything about python code, so no. But there is a mode for talking to python, why not use that?
MikeJB
...
bpalmer
MikeJB: yes, you probably could hack something up, but you may be better off using the normal python-mode interaction tools.
MikeJB
Oh my God.
Where has emacs been all my life?
ams
MikeJB: how old are you?
MikeJB
19, almost 20.
subversus
haha
ams
MikeJB: in that case, emacs has always been on ftp.gnu.org for your part.
MikeJB
You can tell I'm still young because of the remark "almost <age>"
hmmm
ams
MikeJB: for us other folks, we got it via tapes.
MikeJB: oh, it might have been on prep.ai.mit.edu too..
MikeJB
Well, it was difficult for me to get emacs. I had to do "yum install emacs" ;)
ams
*wink*
jlf
MikeJB: i dunno, i think the "almost 20" suggests a certain gravitas
ams
yes, very.
you know what ihad to do to get emacs running?
subversus
another young emacs user!
MikeJB
bah, screen -R doesn't run in M-x term
         

ams
not only wait for like hours to download the pile of smouldering sh*te...
but i had to actually run `./configure && make && vi some broken file && make && ...'
MikeJB
I was really hoping I could access a "screen irssi" inside of emacs....
ams
you can.
jlf
,tell MikeJB about erc
fsbot
MikeJB: ERC is [0] a powerful, modular, and extensible IRC client for Emacs.
[1] at http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/ERC,
[2] latest development snapshots are available at http://mwolson.org/static/dist/erc-latest.(tar.gz|zip), ..[Type ,more]
ams
M-x term
,tell MikeJB about rcirc
fsbot
MikeJB: From memory, rcirc is [0] a minimalist IRC client for Emacs.
[1] at http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?rcirc,
[2] included in Emacs 22 and newer,
[3] at #rcirc,
[4] wget http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/emacs/emacs/lisp/net/rcirc.el
SeparateOne
I'm using it right now. ERC is... Nice.
MikeJB
Hmmm...
Just curious: why doesn't emacs count as its own operating system?
Is the only thing it's missing a kernel?
ams
and an editor
SeparateOne
So, is there a way to make emacs shell play nice with zsh?
jlf
MikeJB: you might also consider running emacs from within screen ... you can create gui frames with that process running as a server using emacsclient
ams
SeparateOne: no, why would there? they are two different programs.
MikeJB
SeparateOne: I've heard of ERC, but I was more wondering if I could run GUI-less programs inside of emacs.
irssi is kind of my "fail-safe" too since if my computer's on, irssi's on in a screen.
Short of a system failure (or a network failure), I can get real-time help to fix it.
e1f
what is the problem with zsh
MikeJB
.... irssi does run in emacs :)
SeparateOne
elf: my zsh colorizations don't display properly. Throws out a bunch of control characters.
MikeJB
Hmm... why doesn't screen run within emacs?
jlf
,ansi
fsbot
I think ANSI is [0] see ansi-color-for-comint-mode-on
[1] see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code
jlf
MikeJB: why not run emacs from within screen?
e1f
you need to set [0] in your .emacs
qDot_
Do not, under any circumstances, use aquamacs. :3
SeparateOne
elf: That did it. Many thanks.
qDot_
Oops.
Wrong channel. But, well, good knowledge anyways.
MikeJB
Ooooh... I've done the heretical with the ansi-term command.
SeparateOne
qDot: It's still relevant.
MikeJB
I can run vim within emacs. Proof that emacs > vim right there. You can't run emacs within vim.
SeparateOne
Eh, emacs and vim serve different purposes. Neither is better, and you can't change my mind. :P
svanheulen
I need some help compiling emacs... from what I can tell a temporary version of emacs is compiled and then that's used to compile a bunch of lisp and then that makes the final copy of emacs, is that right?
quotemstr
Anyone else getting emacs-lisp/bytecomp.el:118:2:Error: Symbol's value as variable is void: advertised-signature-table
when trying to build emacs?
bpalmer
svanheulen: in some sense, yes.
svanheulen: temacs + some loaded lisp is then "dumped" into the final version.
MikeJB
SeparateOne: Well, simple logic. If emacs and vim both have their uses, then you have the variable E for the features emacs have and the variable V for the features vim has... If you can run vim within emacs, the features emacs has thus becomes E+V, and E+V > V assuming E is greater than 0.
bpalmer
temacs should still be around, so it's not temporary in that sense, but that's the general flow.
svanheulen
bpalmer: so how would one cross compile it then? since you wouldn't be able to run the temacs binary
quotemstr
bpalmer: Does dumping really speed things up all that much in today's world?
SeparateOne
MikeJB: But do the features of emacs get in the way of executing vim commands? It's possible, I don't know.
MikeJB
Shhh.... I have used logic to solve the oldest dispute in GNU/Linux history. Don't rain on my parade. :P
SeparateOne
MikeJB: Still, if vim didn't exist, emacs wouldn't have... Alright, I'll let you have your moment. :P
bpalmer
quotemstr: not sure. XEmacs has gone more and more to a "portable dumper" that is slower than the old method but allows for easier porting (and it should provide cross compilation support)
SeparateOne
MikeJB: Besides, if it gets everyone to stop fighting over it, then I suppose it's a good thing.
bpalmer
svanheulen: not sure. I use XEmacs and its portable dumper.
quotemstr
bpalmer: Indeed. The portable dumper looks nicer.
MikeJB
(Action) wonders if emacs could be turned into a window manager.
bpalmer
MikeJB: look at ,,xwem
quotemstr
bpalmer: I eventually want to be able to dump my own Emacs with an arbitrary configuration.
fsbot
From memory, xwem is [0] XWindowEmacsManager
[1] at http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?XWindowEmacsManager,
[2] join channel #xwem
bpalmer
although that's xemacs, not emacs.
e1f
charlie stross uses vim to write his novels
SeparateOne
It could never replace xmonad. :P
quotemstr
e1f: With what? TeX?
e1f
ggole
Yeah, but we have Neal Stephenson
bpalmer
e1f: and stephenson uses an emacs of some kind.
SeparateOne
I can't imagine why Vim would be better for composition. It isn't meant for that kind of use, it doesn't have any features realting to it.
DraX
svanheulen: what are you trying to build emacs for?
i'd reallly like to see portable dumper on gnu emacs :/
bpalmer
... sure it does.
SeparateOne
*relating
svanheulen
... i've never even used vim, haha
DraX
vim is like if you took vi, and were then envious of emacs
so you decided you'd load a lot of useless crap into vi
but do a _really_ crappy job of it
MikeJB
Wait... Could you use an emacs window manager to run Firefox *in* emacs?
DraX
and then make a programming language that borders on unuseable
and shove that in there
and then get everyone to start conflating your crap shoot with vi itself
</rant>
quotemstr
SeparateOne: Sure about that? There are lots of vim packages these days.
ggole: And what typesetting system?
MikeJB
Emacs really *is* its own operating system.
SeparateOne
Vim is better at manual edits. Emacs is better at large-scale functions.
bpalmer: Such as? I'm genuinely curious.
quotemstr
SeparateOne: vimscript is a horror.
svanheulen
DraX: nokia n900
SeparateOne
Emacs is massively extensible. You can't compare vim's scalability to Emacs'
ggole
quotemstr: no idea
quotemstr
Urp? "make[2]: *** No rule to make target `/Users/danielcolascione/software/emacs/lisp/cedet/cedet-cscope.elc', needed by `compile-main'. Stop"
e1f
tso is now working for google
quotemstr
e1f: Theodore T'so, the filesystems guy?
SeparateOne
To me, Emacs has the edge overall. But then, I'm not a vi master, and i've heard watching them work is supernatural.
e1f
yeah
google is migrating to ext4
MikeJB
Ok, apparently my computer couldn't handle the awesomeness and my IRC connection overloaded. I never realized that basically any feature I could imagine was already implemented in emacs. It *really* is just missing a kernel.
To go on topic... someone mentioned python?
This is actually relevent because I'm trying to learn python+pygtk for a program I'm writing and if emacs can assist in this, that would be great.
e1f
i think there might have been a net split
it wasn't you
oh wow. flexible eink displays http://us.aving.net/news/view.php?articleId=144555&Branch_ID=us
metal substrate instead of glass
MikeJB
Sorry, connection problems, going to be back soon...
quotemstr
e1f: My first thought was, "now we can fly variable-data flags!"
(Action) creates his first bzr branch.
MikeJB
alright! it worked! :)
M-x ansi-term RET /bin/bash RET screen -R
I have seen the light now. :)
SeparateOne
Emacs frightens me with its power.
MikeJB
I'm just glad now that there's a choice in emacs IRC clients. Basically, any IRC client that can be run in a terminal can be run in ansi-term, with the added stability of a screen session too.
developernotes
does anyone know the history behind the name of the 'site-lisp' folder?
MikeJB
I for one welcome our new emacsen overlords.
e1f
it's for site-local customizations
developernotes
e1f: I understand that, I was just curious if anyone knew the esoteric history around the name 'site-lisp'? :-)
MikeJB
hmmmm... odd bug... I did M-x set-background-color black and it works fine...
jlf
developernotes: it's for lisp specific to your site.. what's not to understand?
MikeJB
but the text is kind of screwed up. It's either invisible (black on black) or for some reason outlined with a white background for characters where there's writing.
developernotes
jlf: what do you mean by 'site', I guess I am not familiar with that term.
jlf
hmmm... it's almost as if you need to set the foreground color
,d site
,gd site
fsbot: ping
MikeJB
doh
fsbot
3 definitions found
From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]:
Site \Site\, n. [L. situs, fr. sinere, situm, to let, p. p.
situs placed, lying, situate: cf. F. site. Cf. Position.]
1. The place where anything is fixed; situation; local ..[Type ,more]
[google] http://www.gnufans.net/~deego/pub/emacspub/site-lisp-not/
e1f
,d site
fsbot
http://www.gnufans.net/~deego/emacspub/site-lisp/muse/
pong
3 definitions found
From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]:
Site \Site\, n. [L. situs, fr. sinere, situm, to let, p. p.
situs placed, lying, situate: cf. F. site. Cf. Position.]
1. The place where anything is fixed; situation; local ..[Type ,more]
MikeJB
ok... foreground color set
That fixes one of two bugs.
developernotes
jlf: thanks. :-)
e1f
the irc server seems to be under atack
MikeJB
But the text in the ansi-term is still outlined by a white background for only the characters where writing is... which doesn't look good up against the black background.
jlf
MikeJB: that is not a bug
MikeJB
jlf: user bugs :P
Anyway, the text in the ansi-term is still black-on-white, even though the rest of the window (i.e. where there's no text) is black.
jlf
MikeJB: is that true if you run e.g. bash at the "Run program: " prompt, or only if you run irssi?
MikeJB
jlf: anything.
So it must be an ansi-term config thing.
quotemstr
,praise
fledermaus
netsplatter all over the place,
bot probably can't hear you
bpalmer
developernotes: it's pretty much a functional name. That's for lisp that should be "site"-wide (that is, shared across all the users of the machine)
fledermaus
,ping
fsbot
2:32 To Newbie We said: "Dwell with your wife in Paradise and eat of
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