logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / January / 11 / 1
offby1
kinda of a disgusting meatball burp.
isomer
uh oh. parent technical support request.
offby1
heh
isomer
(Action) feels oppressive weight on his shoulders
offby1
I suppose it'd be superfluous to point you to the requisite xkcd cartoon
isomer
no - i haven't seen it before
ah. he's reading the menu items to me. that's the best part
offby1
http://xkcd.com/627/
isomer
hahahahaha
offby1
in the future, I'll omit most of that URL, and will refer to the cartoons just by their integer index, thus bringing to life the classic "prisoners telling jokes by number" joke.
(Action) wonders that Randall Munroe doesn't hang out on IRC
         

isomer
pseudonym...?
offby1
uh oh, why did both the cats just wake up?
isomer
dinner time
offby1
WHAT ARE THEY PLOTTING?!
isomer
most probably
oh, they're plotting your demise, obviously
offby1
loud personal hygiene
isomer
do i dare send that comic to my dad?
offby1
that's twix you and Isomer Sr
*twixt
technomancy
tromey: ping
DuClare
Why does ERC give sometimes a popup for completions, while it usually does irssi-like completion?
Sigh. :|
technomancy
DuClare: nick completion is the main thing I still like rcirc better for
actually, join/part hiding is the #1 thing... nick completion is #2
DuClare
I almost tought I can't bash ERC today.. but looks like I succeeded after all
Oh, wait
It's already past midnight
ams
DuClare: liar
DuClare
Crap, I'm ten minutes late.
offby1
I'm plenty happy with ERC's hiding of joins, parts, etc.
but nick completion indeed trips me up
technomancy
offby1: have you seen rcirc's?
it will show join/part for people who have spoken recently
it's much nicer
yonkeltron: ping
offby1
GOOD SHABBOS
oops
sorry, that's a reflex every time I see the nick "yonkeltron"
technomancy: not really.
technomancy
anyone else wanna chit-chat about package.el?
DuClare
Do you want to bash it?
technomancy
no, I want to fix it
         

DuClare
Sorry, can't help you there. :(
technomancy
well bugger that then
offby1
(Action) is strangely silent
sword
As opposed to normally noxious?
offby1
now now
sword
,dk <insertchar>
fsbot
overwrite-mode is an interactive compiled Lisp function in
`simple.el'.
It is bound to <insert>, <insertchar>.
(overwrite-mode ARG)
Toggle overwrite mode.
With prefix argument ARG, turn overwrite mode on if ARG is positive,
ams
is there someeasy way to split commits ingit?
fsbot
otherwise turn it off. In overwrite mode, printing characters typed ..[Type ,more]
offby1
ams: sorta
ams: lemme think
hmm.
ams
i mean, i guess you can rebase andsh*t...
offby1
ams: all I can think of is: "git add" takes a handy "-p" option, which lets you split up the pending change.
yeah, you'd have to "rebase --no-commit", then "add -ap"
might be kinda tedious
ask on #git
technomancy
(Action) wishes magit would support splitting hunks
offby1
(Action) wishes magit would display diffs like diff-mode does: with individual words highlighted
ams
thing tohate today:libselinux
technomancy
whew, Stefan is in favour of integrating package.el regardless of issues it raises making it easier to install non-FSF-copyrighted code.
it's refreshing to hear the voice of reason every now and then in emacs-devel.
ams
just because you agree with him, does not mean that it is a voice of reason.
fledermaus
wouldn't it be better to make rudybot's translation triggered by a different keyword than fsbot's?
ams
making it easy to install non-free software would be immensly damaging toemacs.
so stefans reasonings are not very heavy in weight
technomancy
ams: that's not at all what's being discussed
ams
indirectly it is.
technomancy
it's whether it would be possible (after some user customization) to install packages for which the FSF does not own copyright
offby1
fledermaus: maybe, or just suppress it when fsbot is in the channel (although that might actually be hard)
fledermaus: easiest would be to simply leave the explicit command intact (i.e., you can still say "rudybot: t8 blah blah", but no longer recognize ",t8")
yonkeltron
technomancy: would package.el be included into an upcoming release if it still isn't finalized?
technomancy
yonkeltron: if we haven't finalized it by the time 24 comes out, I would be very worried. =)
yonkeltron
when is 24 coming out?
ams
yonkeltron: when it is dne.
technomancy
probably 2012
right after the end of the world
yonkeltron
cool. so we've got time then
technomancy
though if the really juicy features (lexical scope, threading) get in, it could be even longer.
ams
emacs already has lexical scoping.
and has had it for ages
yonkeltron
lexbind
ams
lexical-let
technomancy
right, I should be more specific: lexical scoping that you can view the macroexpansion for without wanting to stab yourself in the eyes
ams
rather.
technomancy
also: lexical scoping for defun args
ams
though ithink seeing how much bzr sucks, we won't see either since everyone will commit sucide
does bzr even do merges?
technomancy
yonkeltron: did you want to help out with package.el hacking?
yonkeltron
technomancy: yeah. perhaps with server-side stuff and spec writing
technomancy
did you see Stefan's latest?
yonkeltron
no
i'm not paying much attention outside of what you tell me
work is hell right now
but i did have a few more ideas after hearing some of the great stuff others have said
how is the package metadata stored?
technomancy
yonkeltron: in an alist in ~/.emacs.d/elpa/archive-contents
yonkeltron
right
ok
so that could be generated by something non-lispy
easily
so that works with the git repo which refreshes a directory tree which is in-turn served up by http
technomancy
I've already got elisp code to generate archive-contents from a list of git repos
guess I should bring you up to speed. =)
yonkeltron
i'm pretty sure that in SVN, you can restrict users to edit only a subset of a directory tree
can the same be done in git?
technomancy
check out http://github.com/technomancy/package.el/blob/master/package-maint.el
that code can take a list of (right now only git) dvcs repos and turn it into a package source that package.el can install files from with no further tricks
yonkeltron
wow
that's nice
but getting code in and out of the git repos is the hard part, right?
technomancy
well, the idea is once you decide to include a given package in an archive source, you just add the upstream repository to the list and then have the archive regenerated regularly
so the person maintaining the archive source doesn't need to set up any git repos himself
anyway, Stefan pointed out that maintaining the archive source can be done by hand, so the higher priority is closer integration with the Emacs codebase itself.
yonkeltron
so the elpa archive pulls in everything remotely?
technomancy
right
yonkeltron
right which is deep emacs magic, i suppose
i've got learning to do
technomancy
not really
yonkeltron
o rly?
technomancy
it's just iterating over a list, checking for new git tags that indicate a new released version, and placing packages in the right place on disk for the ones that haven't been seen before
it's less than 200 LOC; nothing too tricky going on
it's not on gmane yet, so here's stefan's response: http://p.hagelb.org/stefan-package-.html
harovali
hi , in org-mode, is there something that builds or views a org-mode tree as a table ?
yonkeltron
technomancy: i see. well, that's fine then.
technomancy: should i continue to develop any of the other ideas?
technomancy
yonkeltron: it'd be great if you could look into the issues Stefan raised about distinguishing between packages installed by the user vs packages installed by a sysadmin
yonkeltron
technomancy: i will try to do that. need to learn about package loading...
technomancy: any pointers on where to start reading?
technomancy
I've stripped out the upload-specific code in my fork of package.el, so just reading through that would be a good start.
yonkeltron
ok
is there a test-suite for this?
technomancy
unfortunately I'm not too familiar with the other Emacs build issues that may come into play, but I bet asking around in this channel could be fruitful
yonkeltron: unfortunately no.
yonkeltron
would it be too tough to write one?
technomancy
if you feel particularly ambitious that could also be a good place to start, especially as writing the tests will force you to understand the code to some degree
if you skip the UI bits it might not be too hard
yonkeltron
heh. is there talk of getting a proper testing kit into emacs?
technomancy
no. =\
offby1
"testing"? What's that?
technomancy
much of Emacs is so stateful/UI-centric that it would just be tons and tons of work to test
istr being pretty happy with ert.el for that kind of thing though
for more functional (less stateful) code
harovali
i want to create a table in org-mod that takes its data for the first column from the first level of a org tree. Is that possible ?
technomancy
yonkeltron: you should hop on emacs-devel to track the package.el thread though
bpalmer
let's test our pudding
icem
harovali: you shoulr
harovali: you should ask on the org mailing list
offby1
(Action) sticks a spoon in his pudding, and notes that it falls over
bpalmer
I believe that's a failure. Please gather all samples and send them to be disposed of
melmothX
/quit
offby1
(Action) freeze-dries pudding, encases in ZipLoc"®©, FedEx"®©es to bpalmer
mk_
hi, i want to know which one you guys recommend for mail between mew and Wanderlust?
wich one?
kodein
well, all I can really say is that I managed to get tls working in wanderlust and not in mew, and thus wl is what I personally use
mk_
kodein: tnx
anyone has more opinion about it?
kodein
I'll suggest you give both a shot though and see which one you'd prefer
mk_
kodein: good idea =]
aidalgol
How am I supposed to get the Emacs development sources?
twb
aidalgol: git
aidalgol
bzr branch --verbose http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs emacs-trunk
gives me
bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "
twb: OK, I'll try that.
Quadrescence
How can I automatically have whitespace at the the of a line highlighted/marked? (not including newlines/form feeds)
fledermaus
,trailing
fsbot
I heard trailing is M-x delete-trailing-whitespace
fledermaus
there's a minor mode iirc
Quadrescence
I guess I'll go look on the wiki in a few minutes.
fledermaus
,dv show-trailing-whitespace
fsbot
Non-nil means highlight trailing whitespace.
This is done in the face `trailing-whitespace'.
You can customize this variable.
Defined in `/usr/share/emacs/23.1/lisp/frame.elc'.
Quadrescence
hmmm
fledermaus: Yep, perfect.
rgr
aidalgol: but as was pointed out today there are more than one git emacs repo - one or more way out of date.
ls -al
gah
twb
M-x whitespace
Er, M-x whitespace cleanup
rgr: the last one I used was git clone --depth 1 git://git.sv.gnu.org/emacs.git emacs
bob2
repo.or.cz/emacs.git is the current one, iirc
twb
The last commit in the sv.gnu one is from Sun Dec 27 08:11:12 2009 +0000
commit 9a339f5040b089f97a4b5c86eefa3942b2e5eda4
mk_
http://orgmode.org/GoogleTech.html
nice video
consolers
no text transcript though
no one bothered to transcript it => not good enough for me
benny
,git
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