logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2009 / December / 18 / 1
jlf
heh, i guess that accounts for some of the energy behind textmate.el
timcharper
heheh, yeah, there's a few handy keystrokes you really begin to miss. lucky emacs can learn them no problem
the main downfalls with Textmate I would say:
a) in certain areas, extensibility really is lacking. (you can't control the cursor interactively with some script, for example)
b) no split screen
subversus
textmate is nice
timcharper
c) TextMate 2 was hyped up, and STILL not delivered. Lot's of people got frustrated with the let down
subversus
but the workflow with it is different, and not always in a good way
timcharper
but, Allan Odgaard is a super smart (and nice) guy, and I know he'll get there eventually.
technomancy
it all comes down to not being extended in the same language it's implemented in
if you make such a colossal mistake as that, you're doomed
timcharper
technomancy: I suppose you COULD extend it with the same language it was written in... but would you want to ?
:)
technomancy
you can hack and patch, but it's never going to be enough
         

timcharper
technomancy: and it's closed source
great for commercial ware, bad for longevity
technomancy
of course; taking that for granted
timcharper
(oh, I was saying you CAN extend textmate with Objective-C... it'd be swell if it were a dynamic language)
subversus
well
people don't seem to have much trouble extending Eclipse in java
technomancy
subversus: what?
seriously?
subversus
sure
timcharper
subversus: they are java people. they're numb to pain
(no offense, java programmers)
subversus
there's some truth to that
crowbar
how do I spawn a second eshell process?
technomancy
I mean it's possible, but it's a whole different thing if you can't alter the behaviour at runtime.
it's almost not worth doing
jlf
crowbar: prefix arg
timcharper
crowbar: like, C-u 2 M-x shell
subversus
eclipse is a different beast
jlf
or just C-u M-x eshell
timcharper
orrrr! M-x shell <ret> screen <ret>
:)
ansi emulation required for that
subversus
technomancy: you can alter behavior at runtime, but you have to know eclipse _very_ well
timcharper
nope... nevermind. FAILed miserably
you win
subversus
the system it uses for that sort of thing is extremely complicated and very finicky
timcharper
come to think about it, radrails (eclipse based) let you extend the editor with jruby
it worked pretty OK
crowbar
thanks C-u M-x eshell worked
         

subversus
well yeah, anything that compiles to java byte code
timcharper
why are we using emacs again ?
(I kid)
jlf
,salespitch
fsbot
We aren't gonna lie. Emacs sucks. Some of us tolerate it, but we can't tell you if YOU'LL be able to. Try it and make up your own mind.
nimred
any idea ?
timcharper
nimred: never used bbdb-print
chmouel
someone would know how to have rcirc not doing a /part when irc channel buffer are being killed
i know there the hook in kill-buffer-hook that does it but I can't seem be able to remove it
timcharper
chmouel: is that a question ?
nimred
timcharper ok thanks anyway
chmouel
timcharper: yeah it is, basically i want to have rcirc connect to a irc proxy so not having to do a /part when i kill the buffer
DraX
use emacs, because you can make it behave like something that doesn't suck ;)
timcharper
DraX: and if it still sucks, it's your fault
DraX
oh, also use emacs: M-x butterfly
_deepfire
Is there any reason why comment-column acts totally bizarre on my 23.1.1 -- it only correctly indents to the specified column when the "; foo" is alone on the line ?
neosoothsayer
,80 column
fsbot
[->] I heard ColumnMarker is at http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ColumnMarker
jlf
_deepfire: it'll indent left of comment-column if it thinks the comment'd be too far to the right
_deepfire
jlf, is there a way, then, to indent "; foo" to a specified column whenever there's space for it?
jlf
have you set-comment-column? (C-x ;)
_deepfire
(Action) tries
jlf
er, comment-set-column even
dotemacs
hi, wrote a little function to indent text by 4 spaces, but it fails to indent the very last line, see the code: http://pastie.org/747922
why does it fail to indent the very last line?
_deepfire
jlf, still no cookie for me..
jlf
dunno then, sry
skorpan
dotemacs: there are better ways to do that you know
e.g. C-x r o
_deepfire
jlf, basically, didn't seem to make any difference
dotemacs
skorpan: that doesn't seem to do it. I tried it by highlighting the text and then C-x r o, and without highlighting it, how do you run it interactively?
skorpan
dotemacs: you must have misunderstood how it works then
dotemacs
yea i did, im just trying something now
i did misunderstand :)
jlf
dotemacs: try C-x h C-u 4 C-x TAB
or C-x h M-4 C-x TAB
skorpan
or "... C-x C-i" (better mnemonic for indent)
jlf
(Action) nods
skorpan
i used to use kmacros for stuff like that :P
dotemacs
magic, thank you :)
skorpan
C-x ( C-u SPC C-n C-a C-) C-x e e e e ...
uh, C-x ), not C-)
dotemacs: you are using this for editing stackoverflow aren't you? :)
dotemacs
skorpan: do not be so rude! there is no need for such language!
timcharper
text message spammers can go to hell. I've been getting spammed like crazy on my phone lately. Do not call registry is not protecting me.
seriously... i try really hard not to say people can go to hell. but I am so angry about this
jlf
just buy something and they'll leave you alone
dotemacs
jlf: cool suggestion !
jlf
hehe
timcharper
jlf: is that how it works? or is that WHY THEY KEEP FREAKING DOING THIS AFTER 10 YEARS OF POLLUTING THE WORLD WITH THEIR PATHETIC EXISTENCE!?!?!?
sig
sigh
jlf
wow is it monday in your time zone??
fsbot
Highly likely.
skorpan
i received a spam mail in the form of an mp3 file recently. there were sex moans in the ambience and microsoft sam reading me a URL
dotemacs
timcharper: you do realise that each sms costs them money?
skorpan
is spam illegal?
timcharper
dotemacs: hmmm.... actually, that's a good point. I should go on to google voice and send them a million messages
(how does google offer free SMS?)
jlf
does gv receive sms's yet?
skorpan
"Spam is legally permissible according to the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 provided it follows certain criteria: a truthful subject line, no false information in the technical headers or sender address, and other minor requirements."
CAN-SPAM... too...much...pun...!
timcharper
lol
jlf: yes, it does. I use it regularly
just sent them 20 messages :) hehehe. Thanks for the suggestion. It'd better cost them.
jlf
(Action) submits a patch to allow fsbot to /msg-blast targeted advertisements
dotemacs
timcharper: if its a short number, then it costs them for sure, you can't get those, or at least i dont know where you can get those
unless you pay
neosoothsayer
for SMS spam, the simplest solution is to just turn off text messages
dotemacs
hahah
neosoothsayer
stupid networks charge for incoming messages to - what crap!
dotemacs
some cool advice there
timcharper
it's a long one. http://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-310-592-8859
jlf
neosoothsayer: att does not support that afaik
timcharper
neosoothsayer: I know, that is the crap thing about text messages. I'm about to say "no thanks" altogether
my data plan (t-mobile) includes 400 messages
dotemacs
timcharper: but be careful about posting stuff about spammers, they can mess you up, posting stuff about you thats hardly true
timcharper
but... it's almost not worth it... except for the few times I message my wife
hmm... i didn't give away too much by my nick, did I?
dotemacs
i guess not
timcharper
that's all I have.. I doubt they'd go research me
i mean, they could.. but they'd have to be really motivated
and they're lazy. I mean, they're spammers
dotemacs
yea, you think that, but you forget that its not them who write the software
its some other smart people that they pay
timcharper
sellouts
dotemacs
they could easily just have a tool that searches/googles that number
true
neosoothsayer
jlf: I think att allows you to do that
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2008/05/lawsuit-over-text-messages-ignores-sms-off-switches.ars
relevant quote: "Most mobile companies do, in fact, allow customers to turn off text messaging on their accounts, although some make it easier than others. AT&T, for example, offers it as a simple radio button on its website in the section that allows customers to add or remove features, which is fairly easy to find. (We confirmed with an AT&T spokesperson that this was the right way to turn off text messaging on one's account.) "
jlf
neosoothsayer: god damn it, the rep told me it wasn't possible
timcharper
jlf: the cell phones companies are all in a big trust, I swear it
dotemacs
why would it not be? its just another service a carrier offers
as in, sms is
technomancy
dotemacs: it's a gold mine; they're reluctant to let you have them charge you less
dotemacs
they might tell you that they can't cos they can't be bothered to do it, but its doable
technomancy
sms costs several thousand times more per kb than data transfer to hubble
dotemacs
you know that all the sms traffic is actually free for the carrier, all of it
neosoothsayer
how can they charge me for incoming texts that I can't control?
thats the stupidest, and most illogical of all charges
dotemacs
you are in US, right ?
fledermaus
neosoothsayer: you get charged for incoming stuff because of the general "regulations are bad, m'kay?" attitude in the states.
which has resulted in a truly fu*ked up mobile setup, afaict.
dotemacs
back in the day, people were charged to receive mail, as in paper letters, it was only later switched to the model we have today, where the sender pays for the postage
neosoothsayer
hello johnw!
dotemacs
neosoothsayer: but there is a way to turn this stuff off, just speak to your carrier
johnw
hey neosoothsayer!
dotemacs
neosoothsayer: its probably just a code you send to a carrier's short number
neosoothsayer
dotemacs: yeah, I will do that - turn it off. It adds about $5 to my bill almost every month
dotemacs
neosoothsayer: damn! that is nuts
neosoothsayer
sometimes its useful - like making a text donation to wikipedia, or This American Life etc
dotemacs
neosoothsayer: is that when you text them, or when they text you?
neosoothsayer
but what I hate is that my cousins from other countries with free sms plans send me silly jokes as SMS forwards, and I pay for them
dotemacs
if its when you text them, i understand anything else pure craziness
jlf
neosoothsayer: no, i don't see how to completely disable sms messages on the att page. i'm already not paying for outgoing messages, but i want to disable incoming messages entirely.
dotemacs
when it comes to mobile's you guys in america are in stone age
its shocking
jlf
at least we have sh*tty health care
dotemacs
/mobile\'s/mobiles/
yea, something like that :)
johnw
neosoothsayer: what's up?
neosoothsayer
Hi johnw! Just having fun with my new Elisp learning! Its awesome to explore!
This weekend, I will try out org-mode with remember.el. Should be a fun weekend of hacking!
jlf: yeah, I dont see that option too
frodation
can somebody help to compile the xembed version of emacs?
i want to get ezbl to run
dotemacs
neosoothsayer: what about if you speak to your carrier and ask them?
neosoothsayer
ATT support is the worst! When I got to the US, my friend added my cell phone as an additional line! I still cant get it transferred to my name
frodation
i've already tried git clone git://github.com/jave/emacs.git
neosoothsayer
johnw: what are you working on now?
frodation
cd xembed
johnw
neosoothsayer: right now, a big old J2EE app in Java
frodation
./configure ... but it still emacs tell me i need the xembed patch
i think i'm missing something
neosoothsayer
johnw: is that for fun or work?
johnw
haha, would it ever be for fun?? :)
J2EE 1.4 + EJB 1.1 is positive beast
neosoothsayer
jlf: sorry, I dont see that option too. I'd be interested in it though. Will try calling ATT support. hard to say what will come out the other end of that though
alrighty guys
bye
johnw
good luck with org-mode
quotemstr
YAY! DEATH MARCH!
frodation
is there anybody using ezbl?
johnw
sounsd like the name of a demon
frodation
it's an emacs mode for uzbl, an posix web-browser
ysph
frodation: i've compiled emacs-xembed, i still need to compile uzbl, git hub's routing table was messed up last i tried, i'll report back if i have any success
frodation
ysph: thanks, uzbl is working fine, i just missing the magic to compile emacs xembed
ysph
frodation: what errors are you getting, and what platform?
frodation
i'm on debian testing, tried git clone git://github.com/jave/emacs.git and then config make, after starting emacs, emacs-server, ezbl-open tells me i nedd the xembed patch, so i think i'm missing some options at compile time
ralph__
How do you record precise timing of keystrokes in emacs?
ysph
frodation: did you check out the xembed branch?
ralph__
say I type "asdf" into a keyboard?
frodation
the full error is if: This version of Emacs does not support embedding windows. Please get a patched version from http://github.com/jave/emacs

version gives me GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.18.3) of 2009-12-05 on GeorgCantor
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