logs archiveIRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2009 / December / 14 / 1
ams
why would you want to switch to zsh?
it is a fu*king moronic shell
e1f
wot?
(Action) uses zsh
ams
then you are a moron.
e1f
oh that's news to me
ams
god i hate zsh
qed_
http://friedcpu.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/zsh-the-last-shell-youll-ever-need/
e1f
shall i check myself in to the nearest asylum?
SharkBrain
I don't think morons get checked into asylums
that's crazy people
qed_
ams, better tab completion
         

ams
qed_: bash has good tab completion.
qed_
better globbing
ams, not as good as zsh
ams
qed_: i fail to see what is broken with bash's globbing.
qed_
can you explain to me the difference
between zsh and bash's globbing?
ams
qed_: oh? so you are saying that programmatical completion is somehow worse in one shell, and better in another?
qed_
if you can't, stfu
e1f
SharkBrain: how would i know that? i'm a moron
ams
qed_: for one: bash can do the same tab completion magic as zsh.
SharkBrain
e1f: touche
qed_
can you do this in bash: *Office*S03E[0-2][0-9]*.avi?
ams
$ touch fooOfficeS03E14.avi
$ echo *Office*S03E[0-2][0-9]*.avi
fooOfficeS03E14.avi
$
e1f
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/43321/worth-switching-to-zsh-for-casual-use
qed_
i stand corrected -- that doesnt work in my bash
ams
qed_: upgrade.
qed_
ams, can you do (foo|bar)?
ams
what would that do?
qed_
match foo or bar
it's regex
ams
posix shell? execute foo,and pipe stdout to bar
uhm, no, it is a shell command.
( ... ) statrs a subshell.
DuClare
:)
ams
foo|bar pipes foo's stdout to bar.
         

qed_
ls (foo|bar).* works in zsh
ams
hence why zsh is fu*king broken
qed_: oh, so it breaks POSIX? perfect.
DuClare
One thing that seems to trip up a lot of people using bash is that .* expands to . and .. (among other matches, of course). How often does . and .. cause problems? Quite often. How often do you need them? Almost never, but if you actually do, it's not that much trouble to type . .. manually
I'm glad that zsh doesn't expand to . and .. (unless you tell it to; there's an option for that)
ams
DuClare: kinda a minor thing,don't you think?
DuClare
Yup
Definitely
ams
atleast nothing worth switching for.
DuClare
You're right
e1f
but all the minor things add up
DuClare
But it's saddening to see people tackle with it over and over again :/
ams
and it ismostly a semantical thing.
qed_
ams -- with due respect, there are probably things that zsh does better than bash
and vice versa
antoszka
BTW, is there an easy way, to expand .* without including . and ..?
a shopt, or sth?
DuClare
antoszka, Yup
Erm, no
qed_
i dont buy any sort of reductionist (read: stupid) argument that one is "complete sh*t"
ams
qed_: like? i just squashed your list of `better than bash' features, gotmore?
antoszka
DuClare: What would that be?
DuClare
Not in bash. But you can use a different pattern :)
antoszka, zsh
:>
qed_
ams -- you have nerd rage
antoszka
DuClare: What pattern? (in bash)
ams
qed_: oh, out of arguments.
qed_
dude, i dont use zsh
ams
antoszka: yeah, don't use * :)
qed_
i said that above if you read
chill the fu*k out
ams
qed_: so you have no more arguments?
lovley
qed_
(Action) rolls his eyes
back to coding...
ams
i thought zsh was sooooooooooooooooo much better...
DuClare
antoszka, .[^.]*
antoszka
DuClare: That won't include .?
e1f
"Personally, Im looking forward to making ergonomic dishwasher-safe sex toys. "
ams
antoszka: right.
antoszka
Cool.
thx
ams
here is one thing i wouldlike to see inash
for x in a b c { echo $x }
saner for syntax
DuClare
Now, this is where the zsh magic begins
http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Doc/Release/zsh_13.html#SEC62
Globbing flags, glob qualifiers
ams
all of which make your stuff completely incompatile with anythingelse.
DuClare
Same for parameter expansion flags
ams, You can't argue about features if you decide you can't have features because they would make things incompatible
qed_
ams: that argument is like saying that because my app isn't compatible with windows 3.1
that it's somehow broken
ams
one reason i so vhemently hate zsh is cause i had to port a bunch of line noise to something sensible...
DuClare
When I'm doing things on a shell, I don't really give a foo about compatibility, I care about getting the job done
qed_
^
e1f
port it to where?
ams
which is why i use eshell.
e1f
zsh is available everywhere
ams
e1f:uhm, bullsh*t.
qed_
^
e1f
ok, it's not available on the commodore 64
qed_
lol
ams, enumerate where it isn't available
DuClare
ams, While doing your work, do you stick to emacs features that are compatible among emacsen?
ams
$ zsh
bash: zsh: command not found
e1f
so just install it
qed_
lol
ams
DuClare: there is only one emacs.
e1f: one, youmight not be root.
VampirePenguin
i love zsh myself, but ive had some serious app failures bc its not fully compatible with abash
DuClare
Oh noes, I can't press C-x f u d because it wouldn't work if I were using Macrosoft guuEmacs
e1f
do you have a package manager?
qed_
if i typed vim on my new system itd say command not found too
what a stupid argument
ams
e1f: two, it might be a machine that is actually use, and you wish to keep the enviroment sane.
DuClare
VampirePenguin, This is why you have a bourne compatible shell for those applications
VampirePenguin
thing is muost of the new stuff bc of *bunt* is dash
debians even doing it now
qed_
ams: as a sysadmin at my university for years, we always had shell options
fsmunoz
ams: well, I've also heard that regarding bash ;)
qed_
zsh, csh, tcsh, bash
ams
qed_: yes, and?
fsmunoz
(from non-bash using heretics, but still)
ams
qed_: these are not multi-luser systems.
e1f
bash isn't available on solaris by default
qed_
(Action) sighs
e1f
so am i supposed to hate bash?
ams
hence why idon't use bashism!
e1f
and solaris is posix
ams
zshism are even more annoying though
DuClare
(Action) retreats from the Holy War
Zeh battlefield is all yours.
ams
(and zsh looks like perl)
DuClare
(Yup)
ams
anyway, all arguments for why zsh was so lovley and great have been squashed.
DuClare
(You use it, you don't read it.)
(That's why it's an interactive shell)
ams, By saying "Oh noes, I can't press C-x f u d because it wouldn't work if I were using Macrosoft guuEmacs"
ams
hence why people writting scripts in zsh should be shot, and why people using itshould be shot aswell, since cause they use it they will start sneaking evil zshims into their scripts
Han
*g* ballony
ams
DuClare: C-x f even works in teco emacs.
e1f
no they haven't been squashed because ther is no one here that is an expert with both shells
VampirePenguin
ive had aptitiude updates and upgrades break
qed_
dude you are wayyyy too far to one side here imo
ams
VampirePenguin: nod.
installing new stuff on live machines isnever fun.
specially when the stuff start pulling in libc upgrades, and what not
VampirePenguin
h2 makes an assistance bash script that will somewhere break on zsh
its the eception for compatibliltiy not the rule
ams
h2?
DuClare
Well, for me scripting has little to do with my choice of shell. I use Zsh interactively; that is, when I'm just DOING something instead of writing a script for generations to use
VampirePenguin
ya he makes smxi, inxi and some other stuff
techpatterns
ams
VampirePenguin: cute.
VampirePenguin: can you send it to me? ams@gnu.org
VampirePenguin
kk
ams
thanks
qed_
ams what's your member number
ams
member number
/
?
qed_
im signing up for an fsf membership
ams
that is nice, i'm not a fsf associate member.
qed_
k
ams
thank you for supporting the fsf though
qed_
least i can do :)
anyone else in here have an FSF member #
ams
you could take over a unmaintained GNU project, or contribute to one ...
qed_
ill refer you
ams, sure, that's the plan of course
ams
help out with inetutils
qed_: if that makes you happy, feel free.
qed_
cool ill check it out
ams
mm...i'd like one of those fancy pancy desks you put over your lap..
that would be cool
qed_
id like a desk that's big enough for a notebook AND a keyboard
heh
DuClare
I'd like a screen above my bed
ams
qed_: notebook == laptop?
VampirePenguin
ams: uv got mail..... its signed and a snapshot
DuClare
infrared got envious
qed_
ams: how do you get a fancy gnu.org email?
ams
VampirePenguin: thanks.
fsmunoz
qed_: I have one
VampirePenguin
:)
ams
qed_: blood, sweat and tears
kodein
I'd like a pony
qed_
hehe
VampirePenguin
when i was up in mn i almost got to met rms
DuClare
I have a fancy guu.fi email e
qed_
fsmunoz: too late buddy, sorry
i already submitted
VampirePenguin
i had to work that wkend
fsmunoz
:(
kodein
I met him once
« prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 next »